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God’s Holiness is the Secret Sauce

In her new book, “Holier Than Thou,” author, speaker, and poet Jackie Hill Perry shares what she has found to be the key ingredient to trusting God. Read Transcript


(upbeat inspirational music)

- No sermon, and no altar call.

Jackie Hill Perry wassimply sitting on her bed

when she met Jesus,

and since then, Jackiehas never been the same.

- [Narrator] Best-sellingauthor, speaker, and podcaster,

Jackie Hill Perry wants to help

if you're struggling with trust issues,

especially when it comes to trusting God.

Growing up, she had ahard time counting on men,

which led her to turn to women for love.

When God called her outof the gay lifestyle,

His love taught her thatshe could rely on Him.

In her book, "Holier Than Thou,"

Jackie shares the keyingredient to trusting God,

and how it has the powerto change your life.

- Jackie Hill Perryjoins us now via Skype.

Hi Jackie, nice to have you with us today.

- How are you? Thanks for having me.

- You were 19 when you felt like God

was convicting you of your lifestyle.

What was it that helpedyou choose to trust Him

in that moment?

- I mean, primarily it wasthe Holy Spirit's conviction,

and Him changing my heart,

and making all that God said that He is,

and all that He'srevealed in His Word true,

but I think ultimately,

I just saw that God was better

than everything that I wastempted to leave Him for.

- In your book, which I loved by the way,

you say that we havemisunderstood holiness.

Talk about that.

- Yeah, I think holinesshas typically been framed

primarily around the moral purity of God,

which is, because God is sinless,

You are unlike Him.

You are sinful,

therefore you're going to hell.

And, to a certain degree, that's true.

His righteousness does matter,

but it's not just that.

It's also that He's unique,

and He's transcended,

and He exists differently than us.

And, if we do want to landon the sinlessness of God,

it's that, "Okay,

if God can't sin,

that means He can't sin against me.

And if God can't sin against me,

then that makes Him the mosttrustworthy being there is."

And so, I think it's helpful to not just

leave God's holiness in the abstract,

but also bring it down,

and see how it's anincentive for our faith.

- Sometimes it's hard for usto grasp the holiness of God,

because He's so different than we are,

and you talk about thatin the book so well.

Talk a little bit about the need for us

to understand the holiness of God,

and why that's the best news in the world.

- Yeah, I think it'snecessary to understand,

because by understandingthe holiness of God

we're understanding God Himself, you know?

Isaiah 6, "The angels aresinging holy holy, holy

is the Lord of hosts.

The whole earth is full of his glory."

And the interesting thing is that

when Isaiah saw the holiness of God,

Isaiah then understood himself.

And I think in our currentcontemporary context,

we believe that we understand God

by understanding ourselves first,

but that's actually backwards.

And so it's a huge deal,

because He is the reason we exist,

He is the reason we were made,

and even the gospel messagedoesn't land as hard

until we realize that it's thetranscendent morally pure God

that condescended, took onflesh, took on our sin, died,

and then rose from the dead,

and now offers life topeople who are so unlike Him.

- Yeah, you dedicate awhole chapter in the book

to holy justice.

Justice is such an issuein the world today,

as well as in our own culture here.

What does that look like, holy justice?

- Yeah, justice matters,

because justice is aboutrighteousness, you know?

When we talk about sin,

we're talking about thefact that people are guilty

of not abiding by God's law

as given to us in the scriptures,

and because of that,

because God is just,

He must judge sinners.

But the kindness of Godis that He sent His Son,

and judged sin in His Son

so that all who trust and believe in Jesus

won't have to be judged in that way,

but all we get is life.

And I think the reality is,

is that all Christians should recognize

that justice is arighteousness issue, period.

- You know, I think sometimeswe think we're trusting God,

but we're really,

as you even said earlier,

we're doing it in the reverse.

We're trusting Him,

because we drum it upin our hearts somehow.

But, what are some of theidols that might prevent us

from actually trusting God,

believing He is who He says He is,

and surrendering into that.

- I think one huge idolis self-sufficiency.

Believing that we,

in and of ourselves,

have everything we need, you know?

And so that's the reasonwhy we don't pray.

We think it's busyness.

No, it's that we thinkwe're self-sufficient.

It's the reason why wedon't lean into community.

Why? Because we don'tthink we need other people

for our spiritual growth.

Why don't we read, and study,

and sit inside of the Bible?

It's because we're stillresting on the Bible of passages

that we read two weeks ago.

We think that's gonnacarry us through this year.

And so, self-sufficiencyis a humongous idol

that we need to rid ourselves of.

- And here where you're talking,

you're talking to people of God here.

- Oh, absolutely.

- Yeah, not the unsaved,

but those who are struggling

to work out their salvationwith fear and trembling.

How can we develop holy vision?

- Hmm.

Yeah, 2 Corinthians 3 says that,

"Beholding the glory of the Lord,

we are transformed into the same image

from one degree of glory to another."

Because I think we are prone to think

that holiness is juststop doing X, Y, and Z.

And that's a part of it,

but I think holiness isalso who are we looking at?

Who is our vision on?

And so, beholding the gloryof the Lord is simply,

when we read the scriptures,

even when we look at the world,

look at the glory.

You see that God createdthe Heavens and the Earth.

That's glory.

You see in Genesis 3,

even after Adam and Eve sinned,

God slaughtered a lamb,

or slaughtered an animalto cover their shame.

That is glory.

You see Him splitting seas,

and Him condescending on amountain to give His law.

You see Him becoming a man,

and healing, and raising the dead.

That is glory,

but it's not something we just look at.

It's something we believe,

and it informs how we then live our life.

- Yeah, it really doesinform how we live our lives.

I loved your book "Holier Than Thou."

What do you want thetakeaway to be for people

who read this?

- Yeah, I just wantpeople to have a fuller,

intellectual understandingof the holiness of God,

but I also want their affections

to be engaged in such a way,

where it isn't that you justknow some stuff about God,

but you also want Him.

- Well, I want to mention again,

the title of the book "Holier Than Thou."

It's her newest book,

"How God's Holiness Helps Us Trust Him."

You can find this wherever books are sold.

It's a wonderful book.

Jackie, thank you somuch for being with us.

It's great to see you.

- Thank you.

Thank you for having me.

Find Peace with God

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