(shofar blares)

- This week on "Jerusalem Dateline."

A special program marking20 years since 9/11

with New York Times bestsellingauthor Joel Rosenberg.

His book, "Enemies and Allies,"

chronicles the historicchanges in the Middle East,

how prophecy is unfolding,and what the future holds

for this volatile region,

this week on "Jerusalem Dateline."

(driving music)

Hello, and welcome to this special edition

of "Jerusalem Dateline."

I'm Chris Mitchell.

20 years ago, what happenedon 9/11 changed the world.

During the past two decades,

the Middle East has gone througha dramatic transformation.

Joel Rosenberg chronicled those changes

in his book, "Enemies andAllies: An Unforgettable Journey

Inside the Fast-Movingand Immensely Turbulent

Modern Middle East."

CBN News sat down with Rosenberg

in this exclusive interview.

(driving music)

Joel, great to be with youagain here in Jerusalem,

with an amazing view here.

- Joy to be with you

at the epicenter of the epicenter

to talk about what in the worldis going on in this region.

- Well, you've written a bookcalled "Enemies and Allies."

First of all, tell uswhy you wrote the book.

- Well, there's a couple things.

One, of course, with the20 years that have gone by

since the horrific attacksof September 11, 2001,

one of the questions that people have is:

Where are we in our battlewith radical Islamism?

We've gone through multiple cycles.

We've been in a almost20-year war in Afghanistan.

We were in a war for manyof those years in Iraq.

We have been in battle,

or at least incounterterrorism operations,

in Syria, in Yemen, in Libya,and throughout this region.

ISIS didn't even exist20 years ago, right?

But the Islamic State surged into power

and created a caliphate andliterally engaged in genocide.

The US Congress defined it as genocide

that the Obama administrationreluctantly, but eventually,

defined what ISIS was doing asgenocide against Christians.

They were slaughteringMuslims by the millions,

or by the hundreds of thousands,

but they were purposelytrying to liquidate,

annihilate the Christianpopulation, and Yazidis as well.

So where are we with Al-Qaeda?

Where are we with ISIS?

And of course the biggestthreat in the whole region

back 20 years ago and moretoday than ever is Iran

and the Iranian regime.

So I really felt that thethreats in the Middle East

and the Islamic worldare changing so much,

and in some areas, growingso grave and dangerous,

that we had to take a new look at it.

And then, of course,there's the Abraham Accords

and the whole move towardsArab-Israeli peace.

So, which is it?

And that's what "Enemiesand Allies" looks at.

Who are our enemiestwo decades after 9/11?

And who are our allies?

Because in both of those areas,

the deck of cards, as itwere, has been reshuffled.

- So the book is in three main parts.

You have Enemies,Opportunities, and Future.

First of all, threats, the enemies.

What's the main threat herein the Middle East right now?

- My basic assessment isthat 20 years after 9/11,

Al-Qaeda is on the run.

It's not gone and youcan't take your eye off it,

but it's not the powerplayer that at once was.

- With Osama bin Laden.

- Osama bin Laden is gone.

Most of the senior leadership of Al-Qaeda

have been taken off thebattlefield, and that's encouraging.

The Islamic State, the caliphate is gone.

The millions and millions,almost five million people

that were living under the slavery,

under the tyranny of thecaliphate have been liberated.

Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the spiritual

and political military leaderof ISIS has been eliminated,

and most of their leadership has been too.

So the good news is some of the major,

non-state terror organizations and actors

are not the magnitude of thethreat that they once were.

The bad news is that, in allof the chaos of the Middle East

of the last 20 years, Iran,

no matter what the UnitedStates and Israel has done,

Iran is more dangeroustoday than ever before,

and they are dangerouslyclose to building,

not just one nuclear warhead,but an entire arsenal.

They have also built outtheir ballistic missile force,

not only to be able toreach here in Israel,

but to be able to reach Europe,

and they're getting closerto being able to reach

the United States withintercontinental ballistic missiles.

And Iran's alliances,

I really spent a lot of time in the book,

their alliances are moredangerous than ever.

They built this reallyclose strategic alliance

with Russia, withTurkey, with North Korea,

and increasingly with China.

Now, each of those allianceslook a little different,

but they are dramatically stronger.

Iran's regime isdramatically stronger today

because they have theseanti-American, anti-Western,

and very hostile enemies as their allies,

and several of those countries, of course,

are nuclear armed themselves,

which makes the Iranian nuclearthreat even more dangerous.

- Plus, they've built upproxies throughout the region,

Iranian militias inIraq, Hezbollah, Hamas,

the Houthis down in Yemen as well.

Almost surrounding Israel

as well as some of the Sunni Arab nations.

- And I think that the countries

that have allied themselveswith Iran's regime,

I don't think they understand

who they're in bed with.

I think all of those leadersin all of those countries

believe they are usingIran to poke in the eye

of the United Statesand to mess with Israel

and the Western alliances.

I don't think that theseleaders and nations

believe that Iran is setting the agenda,

that Iran is setting the pace,

that Iran has genocidal ambitions.

The Iranian leadership

doesn't want to just improvetheir position in the region.

Iran's leadership aredriven by an end times,

radical, apocalyptic eschatology

that believes that, at the right moment,

the ayatollahs will beable to annihilate Israel,

which they call the little Satan,

and that's the only their first objective.

Ultimately, they want to annihilate,

destroy the United States,which they call the great Satan.

And I don't think Putinor the Chinese leadership

or Recep Erdogan, and the great leader

in Pyongyang, North Korea,

I think they are seeing Iranas part of an anti-Western,

anti-American alliance.

Let's just get everybody

who hates America and hates the West,

let's get them all in onebig semi unhappy family.

I don't think they realize

exactly who they're in bed with

when it comes to the Iranian regime.

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(driving music)

- While Israel and theregion face fierce enemies

like the Islamic Republic of Iran,

major opportunities forcooperation and peace

have emerged in the Middle East,

opportunities many never expected.

(driving music)

Well, the second part of thebook is called Opportunities,

the allies in the book.

Tell us about that, andyou've been a part of that

in the sense of meetingmany of the leaders

here in the Middle East thathave become opportunities.

- One of the silver linings

to the darkening clouds here in the region

as the enemies coalesceinto an alliance, really.

It's not just that they'reindividual enemies,

that they're building an alliance

against the United States,against NATO, against Israel.

But one of the silver linings

is that the threat posedby Iran and its enemies

is it is totally causing Arab leaders

in this part of the worldto fundamentally rethink

who is my enemy and who is my ally.

Historically, for the last 100 years,

the Arab world has seen Israelas their number one enemy.

And they've hated the United States

because the UnitedStates has treated Israel

as their number one ally in this region.

But everything is changing.

And that's what's so fascinating, is that,

you know, I've had this opportunity.

God has opened doors that I can't explain

how those doors opened.

I mean, God did it.

Why He did it with me,

why He allowed me to bring otherevangelical leaders with me

to go meet with all the top kings,

crown princes, presidents,prime ministers of this region,

to bring the ChristianBroadcasting Network with me

on all of those trips?

I can't explain God's sovereign purposes.

But He gave us a front rowseat for the other big story

in the Middle East over the last 20 years.

The first story being the enemiesare growing more dangerous

and they're coalescing into a team.

But the other story is

the Arabs are rethinking fundamentally

what they think of the United States,

and more importantly,what they think of Israel.

We were sitting in thepalace in Abu Dhabi,

the political capital ofthe United Arab Emirates,

with the leader of that country,

Crown Prince Mohamed bin Zayed,

affectionately known as MBZ.

We were there in October of 2018.

There was no talk of Abraham Accords.

There's no talk on the horizon

of an Arab-Israeli peace treaty,

but MBZ invited me to bring a delegation.

For the first time evangelicalshad ever been invited

as leaders to come and meetwith all the senior leadership

of the United Arab Emirates.

At the time, this was off the record,

but now in the book, and now with you,

I can say MBZ leaned forwardand he said, "Joel, I'm ready."

I'm like, "What?"

He said, "I'm ready to make peace.

I want to make peace with Israel."

I said, "Even if thePalestinians aren't ready?"

"Even if the Palestinians are not ready."

So we ended up having this fascinating

behind the closed doors conversation

in the palace, in his living room.

"What do you mean?

How have you gotten there?

What would it take to getto an actual agreement?"

And we walked out of that palace

knowing that United Arab Emirates

was gonna go make peace with Israel,

but we were not allowed to say anything.

And less than two years later,

at the White House-- MBZ was the first.

- First one, yeah.

I was here when theannouncement was made in August

and I started getting texts

from senior advisers to the crown prince,

"Watch your news.

We're about to make the decision.

It's coming."

And it was huge.

And then yes, I was very humbled

to be invited by the White House

to be there on the SouthLawn of the White House

as the United Arab Emirates, then Bahrain,

and Israel and the United Statessigned the Abraham Accords.

I mean, this is crazy.

The fact that one Arab country was ready,

but within days, theBahrainians came forward.

And then, it wasn't that long after that

that the Sudanese said, "We're ready,"

and then the Moroccans and then non-Arab,

but still Muslim, Kosovocame forward and said,

"We're ready to make peace

and normalize our relations with Israel."

This is huge.

And I think for many Americans,

particularly American Christians,

but also Christians all over the world,

COVID was a year thatwas so dark healthwise,

so dark economically, and ofcourse in the United States,

race riots, churches closed,not being allowed to open,

a massively divisive politicalpresidential campaign.

There were so many issues on the table

in the United States and around the world.

Almost nobody really paid attention

to the biggest series ofArab-Israeli peace treaties

in history since theEgyptians and the Jordanians.

So again, this is the firstbook, "Enemies and Allies,"

that takes you into the actual palaces,

takes you inside the roomsas you meet the very men

who made these decisions.

Why did they do it?

What are their values?

How did they change frombeing people who were united

against Israel for the last 100 years,

economic boycotts, some of them actually

actively engaged in war.

How did they change?

The Iranian leadership is abig part of why they changed.

They fear Iran.

They, as Arab leaders, are not sure

will the United States stand with them.

They're not sure,

but they are sure that the Israeli nation,

the Israeli leadership would be with them

in a fight to the deathagainst the Iranian regime.

And that, and a lot of prayer

by Christians all over the world.

It's a great testimony

to praying for the peace of Jerusalem.

(driving music)

- [Chris] Coming up, a lookat the prophetic developments

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(driving music)

- From the words of Jesusto the Hebrew prophets,

the Bible has a lot tosay about the end times.

We discussed the current stateof affairs in the Middle East

through the lens of the scriptures.

(driving music)

Do you see any propheticelements in these,

this axis of Russia, Iran, and Turkey?

- I do, Chris, and I writeabout it in the book.

I deal, in one of the sections,

about how do Christians, andparticularly evangelicals,

how do we see Israel and the Middle East?

If I'm dealing with this book

that's covering how the Iranians see us,

how Israel sees them,how the Arabs see Israel,

how the Arabs see Iran,all these different angles,

and I'd been invited to go meetwith so many of the leaders

in this country and in the region,

with you with me, as an evangelical.

So I thought I need to havesome element of this book

that briefly looks at whatdo evangelicals think.

And of course, evangelicalsdon't all agree

on issues of prophecy, but I lay out

some of the major prophecies.

Of course, the main one herewould be Ezekiel 38 and 39,

what's known as the War of Gog and Magog,

where, in my analysis,I believe that prophecy

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The prophecies say

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It has done so.

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and it's continuing to come to pass.

And Israel has to be prosperous.

Israel's more prosperous today

than any other time in its modern history.

And Israel has to be feeling secure.

Now that's an open question,

whether that box canbe considered checked.

But in the grand scheme, mostIsraelis really feel like,

"Yeah, okay, we understandthat people hate us,

but we are more securetoday than any other time

in the history of the Jewish people,"

going back to King David and King Solomon.

So that's really interesting, right?

I'm not saying that Iknow that we are close

to seeing Ezekiel 38 and 39 unfold.

But most people who aregonna be reading this book

have never really thoughtmuch about those prophecies,

and they're worth understanding.

(driving music)

- Up next, from enemies toopportunities and the end times.

What's ahead for the Church,Israel, and the Middle East?

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(driving music)

- From enemies toopportunities to the end times,

what does the future hold for this region,

and what impact will it haveon the rest of the world

and your life?

(driving music)

In the last section ofyour book, Joel, is Future.

What do you see for the futurehere in the Middle East?

- Well, I think there are two

contradictory crosscurrentsgoing on in this region.

The positive trend line

is Arab and Israeli peace is breaking out.

Historic, game-changing,tectonic shifts in thinking.

It's not just about acouple of regional leaders

sitting down and signing some papers.

No.

I've been to the United ArabEmirates, for example, twice

since the Abraham Accords were signed,

and it is warm and they are welcoming

and they love it that you're Israeli.

We've had conferences there.

We've had meetings withleaders, with individuals.

They are so excited.

It's such a warm peace.

I've also been to Bahrain

since the Abraham Accords were signed.

Same thing.

They're so excited.

They feel so strongly.

It's time.

Yes, we disagree with Israelon various things, but wow.

So that's huge.

This is not just one leaderor two changing their mind.

Egypt's leader in 1979,starting in '77 then '79,

Anwar el-Sadat, president of Egypt,

he's the one who had orderedthe Yom Kippur invasion

by Egyptian and Syrian forcesto try to destroy Israel.

But he was also the one

that came here to Jerusalem to make peace.

But that was pretty muchhis own individual decision,

and most Egyptians were not happy with it.

They didn't want to send theirsons and daughters to war,

but they weren't interestedin peace with Israel.

But the Emirate people want peace.

The Bahraini people want peace.

I think the Moroccan people want peace.

So I think that's the positive trend line.

But the negative trendline is just as real,

and that is Iran is dangerously close

to being able to build notjust one nuclear weapon,

but a full arsenal of nuclear weapons.

They have the ballisticmissiles that can reach Israel,

and soon, they will have those missiles

that can reach the United States.

All the more we need to prayfor the peace of Jerusalem.

- And how about the future

for evangelicals here in the region?

- Well, I think what we'vewatched over the last 20 years

is Christians go frombeing in grave danger

in much of the regionbecause of radical Islamism,

attacking churches, burningthem down, beheading Christians,

slaughtering Christians,enslaving Christians.

We've seen it from Libyaand Egypt to Yemen,

and certainly Syria and Iraq.

The worst of that is over right now.

We're not seeing slaughter.

And more and more Arab governments

are moving to defend Christians,

even rebuild our churchesand stand with us.

That's encouraging.

But most Christians in thisregion, except in Israel,

but most in the region

don't have the level offreedom that Muslims have here

or that Muslims have in the United States.

So I want to continue to be an advocate

for the expansion of religiousfreedom in this region.

I've spoken at the StateDepartment's ministerial

on religious freedom at theinvitation of Secretary Pompeo

and then Ambassador forReligious Freedom Sam Brownback.

Both are wonderful friendsand wonderful Christians.

And so I describe sort of a survey.

It's brief, but I describe a survey

of the good, the bad, and the ugly

when it comes to religiousfreedom here in the book.

And I think, I think there's a lot to do.

And I think...

I know there's a lot of other issues

that Christians in the UnitedStates and elsewhere have.

We're starting to lose ourfreedoms in the United States.

That's a problem.

But we really have to standwith our brothers and sisters

here in this region.

And we also have to, one other thing,

and I talk about it in"Enemies and Allies,"

unfortunately, much of themedia in this part of the world

has become an enemy,

enemy of Israel, enemy ofChristians, enemy of truth.

And that's one of the reasonswe started All Israel News

and our sister site, All Arab News.

In fact, I dedicate "Enemies and Allies"

to the staff and theboard of our two new sites

because truth is under siege here.

And I think Christian Broadcasting Network

has done an amazing job over the years,

but I would say, may your tribe increase.

There's so much goodhappening in this region,

but there's also so muchdanger in this region.

And maybe I'll close theinterview the way I open the book.

I say that...

It's been long said about Las Vegas,

that what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas,

but nobody says thatabout the Middle East.

What happens here has an effect.

It has an effect on the rest of the world.

It has an effect on the Church.

It has an effect on oilprices, on energy prices,

on inflation, on currencies, on politics,

on people who serve in the military.

This region forces you to pay attention.

And it has an effectspiritually and geopolitically.

And I think that the20th anniversary of 9/11

is the right moment to reassess,

20 years after thathorrific series of attacks,

who are our enemies and who are allies,

and how should we livedifferent and pray different

as Christians in light of these truths?

(driving music)

- Well, that's all forthis special edition

with Joel Rosenberg, authorof "Enemies and Allies."

If you're interested in knowing more

about the times we'reliving in, it's a great book

that you could purchase almost anywhere.

Thanks for joining us.

Remember, you can followus on Facebook, Twitter,

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I'm Chris Mitchell.

We'll see you next timeon "Jerusalem Dateline."

(driving music)