- Welcome to Studio 5.

And thank you so much for your company.

We have a special edition ofthe show to share this week.

It's a show that earned ourhumble production a Telly Award.

Take a look.

(upbeat music)

Welcome to Studio 5.

This is a special episode and very timely.

In light of all theheadlines in the world today

and the division when itcomes to race in America.

We thought it would be great to revisit

some of the conversations we've shared.

It's an issue we'vealways tried to explore

openly and honestly.

We sat down with the likesof rappers, KB and Lecrae.

Media moguls, Tyler Perryand Russell Simmons.

Actors, Cuba Gooding Jr.and Denzel Washington,

just to name a few.

We wanna share some of thoseagain, let's get started.

Your latest album is "Today We Rebel."

- Yeah.

- Why, what are we rebelling against?

Today you rebel.- Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's a, the title comes from a combination

of experiences and writings

that I've sort of given myself to.

I think one with MartinLuther King, who said that,

"To love is to be radical,"

that there is, to say thatJesus wasn't a radical

is to misunderstand Jesus.

And so when I realized that

if you to love truly and genuinely,

it will be met with a senseof persecution and pushback.

If you were to standfor justice genuinely,

it will be met withpersecution and pushback.

And in that moment,

we had to ask ourselvesif we're free or not.

If we've been freed to live in

as kingdom people in thisworld, when opposition comes.

We meet that opposition with rebellion.

So, we will be rebels for love.

Rebels for truth.

Rebels for justice.

Rebels for service.

Because to me that seemsto be the proper response

to a world that would wantto take away what we know,

which is right, yeah.

- I think we hear a lotof that in the music.

I'm thinking of the track "New portrait."

- Yeah- Which talks about

the whole issue of race and identity.

- Yeah.

- What drove that,

is that what we're seeingunfold in our world,

the divisiveness? Whatpulled that out of you?

- Yeah, "New Portrait" isan important song for me

because I had a conversationwith a gentlemen

while I was making the album.

He's a part of thisblack nationalist group

in the neighborhood that I grew up in.

And we were having a great conversation,

and I mentioned to himthat I was a Christian

and he buffed out of the seat.

He was like, "Man, you seemto be smarter than that."

Like, "Why would you go and do that?"

(both laughs)

- Wow.

- Like, "You've been brainwashed."

And my posture was like,

I had been washed and I've been washed

by the blood of Jesus.

And I'm not unaware of theattacks on ethnic people

that would claimChristianity as their own.

I'm not unaware of someonehistorical failures

of folks who were part.

I'm Southern Baptist, a partof Southern Baptist Convention,

which is Southern BaptistConvention was started

in response to those who wantto take away their slavery.

So, I'm not unaware of that,

but I'm also aware that theJesus of the Bible transcends

and goes back far beyond.

I saw recently an article said,

"If you're looking forancient African religion,

track Christianity."

Because there's a deeprooted sort of history

in presence of Christianity from the east

and the south moving up north and west

that we often forget about.

And we talk about people likeAugustine, and Athanasians,

and Alexandra of St. Clemente.

These individuals whoare of the same ethnicity

that you would find any ethnic, you know,

non-white person, who founded,

who were part of the sort offoundations of the church.

How we do theology,how we do hermeneutics,

has come from, has avery diverse background.

Which points to the factthat Jesus is not owned

by any race.

Nobody has a monopoly on the son of God.

It's not the product.

The gospel is not the product of Europe,

it's the product of heavenand it comes down to us.

And I think some ofthese historical points

underline that point.

So, that's why that wasan important song for me.

- It's a wonderful song too.

Lecrae, who you workwith has distant himself

from the evangelicalworld and call them out

for not taking a standalongside him and others,

when it comes to the issueof racism in this country.

You agree with that stand?

- I agree that the evangelicalchurch has not done well

with the issue of race in this country.

I think that one of thebiggest issues facing us

is the politicizing of our faith

that we begin to ask questions like,

are you Republicanbefore I align with you?

Or are you Republican before I love you?

Are you Republican before Iconsider you a solid believer?

I think that's a tremendous misstep

for the people of God in this nation.

I having been benefited a lot

from a lot of what evangelicals have done

and have deep relationshipswith the evangelical church.

I consider myself a blackevangelical to a certain degree.

I feel a responsibilityto lead and to challenge

and to bring redemption, I think,

to issues that have beenlargely mismanaged by people.

I think in end of the day,

even if I deal with brothers and sisters

who are blinded by biasand politics and racism

and white supremacy, many ofthem, Christ has died for them.

And someone who has sortof a pastoral heart,

I want to be a part of shepherding people

into knowledge, into wokeness,

into a vision of thekingdom that's most in-sync

with scripture and thatactually excites me.

I'm not tired of theconversation, I don't run from it.

He got me to talk to anybodyat Winter Jam, you know,

I'm one of the few blackpeople on this tour.

And we have lots ofconversations about those things.

Let's talk about Donald Trump.

Let's talk about race.

Let's talk about racism,

because God has something to say about it

and we should not let thosethings get us to a point

where the blood of Jesus is secondary

and our politicalpositions become primary.

So, I feel excited aboutleading in those conversations.

- June 19th or Juneteenth,

marks the day the lastremaining slaves in Texas

learned about their freedom.

Two years after theemancipation proclamation,

there's now a movement to makethat day a National Holiday.

Virginia and New York honoredthe day as an official holiday

in those states this year.

We'll continue our look backat eyeopening conversations,

when we come back.

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- And welcome back to the Studio 5,

special report on race in America.

We're continuing ourconversations with entertainers

and thought leaders on the subject.

Take a look.

- There's a moment now wherethings are being taken from us

without even knowing.

This stuff happening to us right now,

they're attacking us right now.

They're finding ways todestroy our environment,

poison our children.

they'd given leeway to businessto take advantage of us

in every possible way,and we're not active.

So, when we have the voicesin the community speaking up,

it'll make a big differenceto get more people active.

And I think that's reallywhat hip hop's goal is,

to really inform and inspire.

And that's what they want,

everyone who speaks, wantsto inform and inspire.

So, we're moving in theright direction right now.

- And where is God in poetry?

- Oh, God is right in the word.

God is everywhere in allthings and in all struggle.

The collective on the,you know what I mean,

when you say God, you know, youcould mean the highest self,

the higher self is morelikely to come out of poetry

than it is in all theexpressions, you know.

Because that's, when again,

the signs comes and Godonly exists in stillness.

- Dante, you say something atthe very start of the film,

we're very close to it.

"Violence is not going to stop.

This is beyond flesh. It's spiritual."

Can you speak to that?What drove that statement?

- It was my, growing upin a violent community

consuming culture that was violent

as far as the rappers that I listened to.

As far as the movies that I watched.

And understanding that thisis not just entertainment,

'cause it's happening in myliving room, in my kitchen,

outside in my front yard, backyard.

So I was like, oh, this is what it is.

And then once I was pursuant to be that.

And then I was like,

nah, I think I wannado something different.

I'ma write to uplift my community.

I wanna stop violence,

I wanna stop the violence in my community.

And then I realized the more Iresearched and read I'm like,

violence has been aroundsince the beginning.

It's always wars of different communities

for whatever reason.

I'm like, dang, violenceis bigger than just,

I can say, I wanna stop gun violence,

but violence is in all different types.

It's the words that you speak to somebody

that's very violent by tellingsomebody that you're stupid

or you're not worth anything,that's a violent act.

So, what I meant by that is,oh, if we are spiritual beings,

it's more than just whatI do to you physically,

it's how I think about you mentally.

It's what I feel about myself spiritually.

So I'm like,

you can't stop violenceby locking me in jail.

I'm gonna beat up theguards, you know what I mean?

So, it's like, I'm notcausing havoc on the street.

I'm up in jail, raising a bunch of havocs.

So, it was like, I was spiritual.

So, until we understand that

you're not going to stop nothing.

I don't care how muchmoney, how much you vote,

how much you, until you tap into that,

it ain't going to stop.

- And to add to that

What you always say, I'mrepeating what you saying.

It's, you do it for yourself.

That's how it's transformative to others

to do it for yourself.

You can't just go out and be an activist,

you gotta go out and change yourself.

Not that you go out and change the world.

It's a cycle of the same.

You give what you wanna receive,

but you gotta receive what you wanna give.

- And they have to self work begins first

- Yes, self-reflection, that's life goal.

You know, to notice self,self-realization is life goal.

- Yeah. Dante, you're not just an artist,

but you're an activist now as well.

Was there a point, Iknow there was a point.

What was the point in yourlife that you've realized

the power of the spoken word?

The power of poetry? What happened?

- It was my second poem.

I wrote it during summer school of 2007.

Ironically, I was in an English class.

We was reading Romeo and Juliet,

and I was cracking jokes with my homeboy.

He wasn't really my friend,

we ain't grow up andnothing but white boy,

very small head on a backpack

when he was just laughing in class

and I used to just watch him,like, he seemed so happy.

But he had a big hole inthe front of his shoes

where he could see hissocks and they was dirty.

And I was just thinking like,

how was he able to smile so big

with his shoes looking like that?

Because at the time I had on some shoes

and I had a hole at the bottom of my shoes

and I put cardboard in it,

so when I walked the rockswouldn't hit my foot,

so I'm like, I know howI feel, but he smiling.

So, I wrote a poem dedicatedto that and wrote about it.

And once I shared it and Isaw people responds to it,

it was like, because I knewwhere that poem came from.

And I saw how otherpeople responded to it,

it was like, dang.

Now, if I would've just told somebody like

what I was going through,

I probably would've got teased for it.

Like, "Oh, you got a holeat the bottom of your shoe."

But if I talk about it in apoem, and now people like,

"Dang, I ain't know."

And it's like,

that just showed me the power of this

by saying poetry or poems.

This is coming in an artisticway, people listen more.

So with that, it's like,I'ma take advantage of that.

- As we continue thisconversation, it's worth noting,

there's a documentarywe shared some time ago.

It featured author JamesBaldwin in his own words.

Diving deep into the impactof racism on our country

and on our lives.

It's worth going back andtaking a look at the film,

"I Am Not Your Negro."

Stay with us.

This conversationcontinues right after this.

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- And welcome back to Studio 5.

Let's continue our look back at racism

as explored right here on this show.

Take a look.

Cynthia, what would you say,

the greatest lessonHarriet Tubman taught you

in doing this film?

- That even when you feelsmall or insignificant,

that you probably havemore power than you know.

That I have more strength and will in me,

in order to change the world.

And I have something tooffer this world, yeah.

- Because even in termsof stature, I mean.

- [Cynthia] She was five foot.

- And in your about?

- Five foot.(Efrem laughs)

- So, you could feel the pressure

of being looked at as small.

- Yeah, consistently. Yeah.

- Leslie, growing up in New York?

- [Leslie] Philadelphia.- Philadelphia, wow.

So, Philadelphia for you.

- Yeah.

- What a great place to grow up there.

How much do you recall or remember

in the history lessons foryou about Harriet Tubman?

- Quite a bit, we touched onHarriet almost every year,

probably in primary school.

And we even touched on William,so I knew about their work.

I knew about theirlife's work, the passion,

and them being on thefront lines of the movement

with the underground railroad.

But I didn't know about the life.

I didn't know about what mayhave led them to that passion.

So, the homework for mewas filling in the gaps

of my education with the childhood stuff,

the life stuff.

- I'd venture to say that for many of us,

you were introducing us to William

because we did not know about him.

- Sure- Who is he?

- Sure.

William was known as the fatherof the underground railroad,

abolitionist, a writer, abrilliant man, an activist,

and a friend to Harriet Tubman.

He was really the last stopon the underground railroad

on this great network.

Full of allies and peoplewho were risking their lives

to see to it that blackpeople could no freedom.

- What did faith mean forHarriet on this journey?

- It meant everything,

I think it was one of thedriving forces for her

to keep moving forward.

She says, notably that Godwould give her messages

in which she would use to follow through.

There's a moment in the filmwhere she's told to go left.

And that is part of her story.

She used to tell a one woman stories

of one women performanceabout her run to freedom.

And she would talk about the connections

in which she made with Godthat the messages she would get

from God to make the journey.

So, I believe it was one of themost important things to her

and she would speak on that faith, yeah.

- If both of you couldtake me back to Virginia,

you guys are out shooting this film.

How emotional was the experience?

- It was very emotionalfor me, particularly.

It was emotional.

I pulled on everything, you'rereliving loss consistently.

You're reliving hardships and hard work.

And when you combine thatwith exhaustion and tiredness

and the physical work that has to be done,

you wear yourself quite thin.

So, that the line betweenyou and the character

and the person sort of fades a little.

So, everything is right at the surface.

Yeah, that was intense for sure.

- Leslie, how emotional was it for you?

- I mean, William reallypart of his reason

for being in the film is that

it's just this reallywonderful juxtaposition

of two very differentportraits of black life

living in America at the same exact time.

And you know, kind of howcombustible that can be.

You know, it's a source ofdrama and comedy in our movie.

Obviously they're a hugesupport for one another,

but I'll say, yeah, my stuffreally pales in comparison

to almost the way Williams would have,

to what Harriet had to go through.

You know, William's, he was in his office,

he was at the printing press.

(Efrem laughs)

His work was very different,he made real change for sure.

And was an architect ofthis network, brilliant man.

And also had the, when thinkingabout how much instinct

plays a part in this story, you know,

Harriet's relationshipwith God that was instinct

that led William to record these stories.

To write these stories down,

he risked everything to make sure

that there was a record ofthis bravery, and courage,

and these impossible stories.

William saw to it, thatthere was a record of it.

- And I do think that it feelslike where we are right now

is in need of somethingthat shows us our power

as human beings when we resist.

And when we use ourourselves to change things

for the better, howmuch change we can make.

This is a woman whoselife was, 91-years long.

And in that time she did many,many things all for good.

And if that's no example,then I don't know what is.

I think that's why now.

- Another great voice we'veshared in our conversations

on race is Bryan Stevenson.

He's a personal hero

and the founder of theEqual Justice Initiative.

It's worth checking out his work

and learning how you can support.

Stay with us, we're coming right back.

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(upbeat music)

- Welcome back to Studio 5.

Thank you so much for staying with us

through this extendedconversation on race.

Before we go, we have onefinal word for today's show.

Take a listen.

- Can you say you always knew

that there was greater for you.

Do you remember the moment you knew

or what happened that,that light went on for you?

- No, it's just I always knew.

I always felt as a kidthat there was more for me.

I didn't see things the way that my,

a lot of the other kids in theneighborhood saw things that,

or even my parents for that matter.

They saw us being black orus being poor or us being,

like even I had ateacher, I said, you know,

they have the rest of thekids where they wanna be.

And I said, I want to be a millionaire.

And he said, "You're never gonna make it

because you're poor and you're black."

But even as a child,

there was something in me that said,

that's not true, don't believe that.

But I know now that was,it is the voice of God.

That was the counter to the negativity.

It was the alter to it

that was always encouraging me for sure.

And obviously that wascritical in light of all

that you were going to endurethat you needed to own this.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had to know.

And you know, the other part of it too,

is I thank God for my mother.

I feel sorry for kids whoseparents don't give them God.

Don't give them faith.

Don't give them Jesus,

because life is gonnaget hard at some point

and you will turn to something.

Everyone turns to something.

And I'm so glad I had theoption and I had a mother

who was smart enough or strong enough,

or had the wherewithal andthe faith enough to say,

"Son, this is where you go."

So, that I'm not strung outon drugs because the things

that I've been through, man,

it's a wonder that I'm sittinghere but he is a wonder.

- [Efrem] Yeah.- Yeah, for sure.

- That's a great final wordfor this edition of Studio 5,

until next time.

Make time to uplift someonearound you and then come on back

and see where Studio5 takes you next week.

Bye-bye everybody.