- First off, Amy, thankyou for allowing us

to be in your home in great celebration.

I'll begin with

39 cities await Amy Grant's visit.

How are you feeling?

- Is it 39? I haven't counted yet.

(Efrem laughing)Right? Way to go.

It's 39.- 39 cities

await your performance.

How does it feel to begetting back out there?

- I am so glad I get to work.

And, you know, as somebodywho's toured off and on

for 40 years,

there is always something inthe back of your mind going,

"I wonder if it would feel very liberating

"to never have to pack another suitcase?"

Because you know, myhusband and I, to go to work

we have to leave.

And it's a lot less complicated now.

We're empty nesters,

but you know, everybodykind of flirts with

some people get to stay home.

But then all of a suddenwe stayed home, you know,

for over a year.

And what I really,

I'm so grateful to get to pack a bag.

- We are all excited andlooking forward to it.

Can you believe that it's been 30 years

since "Heart In Motion?"

- Yeah. That's lifetimes ago.

(Efrem laughing)

- Here's the greatest thing to me.

When I was writing thesongs for that record,

I was pregnant with my daughter Millie,

my first baby girl.

And then, you know, the albumcame out and she was tiny.

By the time I got to perform "Baby, Baby,"

which was written abouther, on the Grammys,

you know, she walked out to me

and those are memories thatI will cherish forever.

4th of July she announcedto our family she's pregnant

with her first baby.

- Oh wow!- I know!

(Amy and Efrem laughing)

I'm like, "Okay."

Like it took this, you know, I mean,

we all have things that welike to reminisce about.

The biggest celebration has been

the people I wrote thesongs with, the producers.

We have had so much fun like,

re-watching the highlight reel,

but it's one of a millionstories in the world.

Everybody's got their stories.

Everybody's got their highlight reels.

But when my daughter said,"I'm gonna have a baby girl."

I was like, "Wait!"(Efrem laughing)

- Thank you, baby is forthe baby that's coming now.

- I know, yes. Yeah.

- Were you aware during the process

that this was such agame-changing project for you?

- No. No.

- [Efrem] No?

- What I was most aware of was just

there was such great creative energy

with the songwriters, the producers.

It was the first time I'd ever worked

with multiple producers.

Up till then, my hand had been held

through every project by Brown Bannister.

I'd known him since Iwas in my early teens.

And...

Yeah, I just, you know,

life was full ofpossibility at that point.

You know, already everything

that had happened to me inmusic was way far beyond

what I had dreamed.

It was, you know?

And so we just were joyful and

excited to be getting to, you know,

to do something that was sortof beyond our wildest dreams.

And then to have the additional engine

of so many talented people.

Re-mixers, a record company in Texas,

and a record company in Los Angeles.

And, you know, nothinghappens without a big team.

- Yeah.(Efrem laughing)

- Nothing, you know?

I was the wooden womanon the front, you know?

Bare-breasted to the wind.

I'm like, "Okay."

(Amy and Efrem laughing)

But it takes a team, everything does.

- It sort of helps solidify

your move into mainstream and just

gave you a much wider audience.

Was that a consciousmove to make that to do?

Or were you just wanting to make music?

- Well, we were just making music.

I wanted to make not justfaith-based music, you know?

The first time I got on astage when I was in high school

with my guitar and writing songs,

I'd sang songs, allkinds of songs, you know?

And yeah, and I just, you know,

music can capture everything.

A broken heart, trying to figure

your way through the world, you know?

You can sing an old hymnthat you grew up singing

next to your great-grandmother and go,

"Oh, that's where I came from."

Or, you know, it's just everything.

And I think just my desire towrite songs about everything.

And especially at thattime, it was really a...

I think because I'd alwaysdreamed of having a family

and the making of that record

and the touring of that record was all,

I had two young childrenon the road with me.

- Wow.

- My nanny, I would walk off a stage,

just sung to 15,000 people and she'd go,

"I saved this diaper for you."

(Amy and Efrem laughing)

I was like, "Okay, yeah."

So whatever primadonna thingwas happening in other worlds

was not happening in my world.

- [Efrem] Letting kids keep you in check.

- Oh my gosh.

But I so loved, I mean,I had dreamed of that

and I was getting to do music and that.

And I just think it mademe see the world through

a really positive lens,

a joyful, kind lens.

And I look back at thatrecord and I thought,

"That really reflects thattime in life," you know?

It kind of invited everybody else.

Not to be oblivious, I mean,

there's some heavy songs on there.

- [Efrem] Absolutely.

- But just to, I don't know,

it was like, just let'sbe gentle with each other.

- I love that.

You took heat for themove into mainstream.

And I've heard you answer this before

and I love your answer.

What did you think whenthe Christian community

or members of it got upset with you

for reaching a biggeraudience, if you will?

(Efrem laughing)

- I mean, I was not thataware of it then, you know?

This was long before social media or...

And then I just have never really had,

I've never had much of a curiosity

about what people beyondthe circle of folks

that I trust and work with.

I mean, beyond that, it'slike, well, everybody's

just looking for somethingto talk about, you know?

But I've never, I just, I don't know.

I've never.

I have, yeah.

I used to picture an artist

like painting somethingon an easel and going,

"How ridiculous would it be?"

He's got a picture inhis head to be going,

"Do you like that color?"

(Efrem laughing)

"What do you think about that?"

You know, it's just like,"Just paint the picture.

"I'll like it or not like it."

And that's really how I felt.

I'm gonna do this.

Like it or don't like it, you know?

This is not rocket scienceand we're not curing cancer.

We are bringing, I think, through music,

always light and love into the world.

And so, I mean, I don't know

what you wanna argue about that.

(Amy and Efrem laughing)

- Well, you weren't hearing it

but those of us who werefans were hearing it.

And I'd laugh because we would be on a bus

with going to camp andwe'd be blaring, you know,

the album as we're going.

And I'm thinking, "Why dothey think this is bad?"

- I know.

- [Efrem] We're all havinga good time with it.

- Yeah, yeah.

- [Efrem] So I'm gladthat was your perspective.

- And now I'm picturing youon your way to camp with kids.

(Efrem laughing)

- Yes, with Amy Grantblaring from start to finish.

You know, I have to ask,

does "Heart In Motion" havea different meaning now

in light of the last year?

Because you shared thatyou had open heart surgery.

- I did, yes.

- I mean, do you singthe song differently?

- I mean, I think I lookat everything differently.

You know, it was such afluke that they found out

I was born with a birth defect, you know?

That, you know, I justremember the doctor saying,

"We need to go on andget this taken care of

"before you turn 60."

And I'm 60 now.

And I saw an interview lateron that he had written,

"She probably would have died by 62."

He didn't say that to me, but like it was,

I saw that and I hadto lay that paper down

and I went, "Okay, good.Information is power.

"I'm so glad he never said that to me."

But I think I look at everything,

I don't know, just with...

I mean, I am glad to be alive, you know?

And I think anybody that is going into

something where you know

your wellbeing is completelyin somebody else's hands.

I mean, mine literally, you know?

I was on a bypass machine

and somebody like was holdingmy heart in their hand.

- Wow.

- And, you know, you do have to who,

take some deep breaths and go,

"You know, will I wake up?"

And what really mattersof the things I have done

and what matters aboutwhat comes after this?

And it's not the big things. It's not.

An award on a shelfdoesn't make any difference

to the quality of yourlife or somebody else's.

But I go, when I'm in thecheckout line at the grocery,

like I'm gonna look at that woman.

She's gonna look like me

or she's gonna look different from me,

but we are connected.

And just to go, "Man, thank you."

I mean, thank you.

And to me, I just feel a hyper awareness

of the gift of each other, thegift of every day, you know?

And that life is beautiful

and there's so much in the world.

We cannot...

It seems hopeless to effectchange in so many arenas.

And then, but then every day I go,

"Oh my gosh, I got myhands on my own wheel.

"I can't steer anybody else,

"but I can steer my life differently

"because of things that Ihave been made aware of.

"I can steer my life differently."

I can.

And that's really, I don'tknow if it was heart surgery,

just all of our collective awareness

and awakening that happened during COVID.

Racially,

opportunity and lack of opportunity,

just everyone's new understanding

of who really makes America work.

And it's the workers,

it's the people getting paidthe least amount of money

are the ones that keep the ball in motion.

(Amy and Efrem laughing)

You know?

And that is

just to, I don't know,

it's just like seeingeach other really matters.

And then you're sort ofled in different ways.

Then new conversations open up.

I started going to a church I went to

when I was in high school.

I mean, I went nowhere for a long time.

And I walked in a little bit late,

sat on the back row right next to a woman.

And I said, "I've just beenhere a couple of times."

And she said, "I walked.This is my first time."

And I said, "You'realready an answer to prayer

"because I don't want togo to an all white church."

(Amy and Efrem laughing)

And I said, "This was worthit to me just showing up."

You know, but I justthink those conversations,

having the language and license

and freedom to say that, you know?

For all of us to see ourselves, you know?

To walk in and go, "Iwalk in looking like this.

"What, in my culture, what'swalking into the room with me?

"What am I dragging in becauseof the package I'm in?"

- [Efrem] Yeah, wow.

- And to go, you know, to me all of those

are to me gifts of 2020.

- Great.

There's something you saidbefore that I had to write down

because it really blessed me.

You said that, "Unity is the freedom

"to share our differences with each other

"in a setting of compassion."

And when you said that I was like, "Yeah."

Because when we think unity,

we think everything needs to be the same.

And it's like, no.

- No, no.

(Efrem laughing)Yeah.

No.- [Efrem] It's different.

(Efrem laughing)- Yeah, it is.

- [Efrem] But being compassionateto those differences.

- Yes. Yep.

- Before I move from the heart surgery.

It's unique the waythat you discovered it.

So you take your husband toget his heart checked out?

- Yeah.

- [Efrem] And it's youwho end up with the issue?

- Yes, I know.

We were just there for the test results

from everything for him, you know?

And I went.

Yeah and he got a great report.

The doctor said, "Just eatbetter and exercise," you know?

And then this cardiologistturned to me and said,

"Hey, we should get you checked out."

And I mean, we were right in the middle

of our Christmas residencyat the Ryman Auditorium.

You know, two shows on somedays, but lots of shows.

I was like, "I have no time."

And he said, "Well, I want you to come in

"right after the beginning of the year."

And so I said, "Okay."

You know what?

All I'm thinking is,

"Oh my gosh, not the dreaded treadmill."

But he didn't even put me on a treadmill.

- [Efrem] Wow.- He just did this.

And he later, he just said,"I just had a gut feeling."

(Efrem laughing)And so I know.

♪ Do, do, do, do, do, do ♪

Yeah, I know.

Yeah, and I'm not the first patient of his

that he's had a gut feeling about.

I know.

So anybody that's called me,

and I've had severalpeople call me, going,

"I'm feeling my chest feels weird."

I pass on the number ofthat particular doctor

because I said, "You know, he's gifted."

(Efrem laughing)- Amen, amen.

In more ways than he may realize.

- Exactly, yeah.

- You are the firstcontemporary Christian artist

to have a platinum record.

I can go on and on about the accolades,

career sales exceed 30 million,

six Grammys, 26 dove awards.

Do you spend much timethinking about that?

Those accomplishments?

- No. I mean, honestly?

Yeah, no.(Efrem laughing)

I don't.

To me, it is whatever has happened

with the vocal gift I was given,

which is a pretty simple gift, you know?

I can't do all, I don't have a big range.

I can't do all the gymnastics.

Like I remember being 15and going to the youth group

and saying, "This is shockingme as much as anybody else.

"I got a record deal."

It was so freakish.

And I just said, "EverybodyI've ever sung with

"is a better singer than I am."

That's how I felt even then.

And I was like,

but I remember saying, "I mean,hey, God can use anybody."

And so, and with my youth group, I said,

"Well, why?

"I mean, what if my voice isfive loaves and two fish?"

Like if I don't try to control it.

And I was, you know, I was a kid,

but I remembered thosekids in that hippie church

that was, you know, I don't know.

They just kind of gathered around me

and I'll still remember theboy, he was two years older

than I was.

And yet that was his prayer.

"Just take this five loavesand two fish, her simple gift."

You know?

So like, when I get, "Hey,will you sing on this duet?

"Will you sing this?"

The first thing that goesthrough my mind is not,

"Aren't they lucky to have me?"

My first thing is, "Ooh, how high is it?"

(Amy and Efrem laughing)

"Can we change the key?"

You know, I'm always like,hedging my bet going,

"I don't know if I can do that.

"Can I do that?"

It's so weird.

But I, like,

I feel like what that mygreatest gift is not my voice.

I've always felt like my gift

was that I openly communicatea way to live life.

There are a million ways to live life,

but I have loved writingsongs and communicating

and I don't know.

And just like,

I feel like that's what'screated a connection with me

with an audience.

Is it's, I don't know.

It's more about a gentle,

compassionate approach to living.

- [Efrem] Love it.- You know?

And so,

yeah.

So all those.(Efrem laughing)

Whatever medal or award I've got, like,

I just look at 'em out ofthe corner of my eye going,

"All female singers must'vebeen busy that day."

(Amy and Efrem laughing)

And I got the big break.

And I'm not saying that in false humility.

Anybody that knows me.

Like my husband is sucha great studio singer.

He's like, bah, one take.

And I'll go into sing a song and I'm like,

"Oh my gosh," eight hours later, you know?

How many times can you?

It's so close. I love the tone.

You're a little pitchy.

You're not quite in the pocket.

And I'm like, "Well, I'mso glad you love my tone

"because clearly pitch andpocket is not my gift."

You know?

But it's just like, I have worked so hard

to create the music I've created.

But it is not about perfection.

(Efrem laughing)

- I love it. I love it.

- [Amy] Yeah. Never has been.

- I have seen your humility on display

and the story that you won't remember.

My wife is from Chattanooga.

We drove to Nashville to seeDisney on Ice with our son.

And literally we're inline at this auditorium

and you are standing two people behind us.

And I whispered.

- With my kids?

- Yeah, I was like, "That'sAmy Grant behind us."

I said, "Why is she standing in the line?"

(Amy and Efrem laughing)

- Oh, that's funny.

- Wow, she just comesand stands in the line

like everybody else.

So I've seen your humilityon display indeed.

There's one performance that's not yours

that I do wanna get your reaction to.

It's from like 10 years ago,

'cause I still listen to it all the time.

And that is your husbandand Carrie Underwood.

- Oh, "How Great Thou Art."

- [Efrem] Were you inthe audience for that or?

- Was I in the audience?I've seen it so many times.

I was in the audience for that, yes.

And yeah, that was breathtaking.

That was breathtaking.

Yeah, one thing I knowabout Vince is that he,

I don't know why, but church hymns.

He didn't grow up like, hisfamily was not a church family,

but he gets choked up everytime he tries to sing a hymn.

- Wow.- Yes.

Like if we go to a funeraland you know, he said,

"I'm not trying to playshy and hard to get.

"I really like a biglump comes in my throat."

And what I loved aboutthat performance was

you can be very chokedup and still play guitar.

(Amy and Efrem laughing)

- [Efrem] Yes, yes.

- Do you know what I mean?

So it was like an unhindered voice.

Yeah, that was beautiful.

- You also did work onanother project that,

as I told people,

I said, "I know it wasn'twritten or performed for me,

"but I've been enjoying it."

And that is The Faithful Project.

- That was a game, that wasa life-changing experience.

- [Efrem] Why is that?

- Well, those of us thatparticipated on the project,

we were women communicators,

either songwriters, bloggers,

writers, performers, storytellers.

And we were brought together to

enjoy creative writing,to enjoy meals together.

And in the process, each dayto be divided up in groups

of two or three, given the

Bible references to one particular woman

and study her.

And all day long talk aboutlike historical context.

Yeah, there were some scholars in there.

I'm not in that group.

(Efrem laughing)

But and then just as a woman in this time

to look at that woman in that time and go,

"Well, I mean, clearly she matters

"because she is in this

"timeless book in the Bible."

Anyway, I just felt such a connection

with all kinds of women,

all kinds of lifestyles,

all kinds of purposes.

And...

And then we wrote songs from it

and we wrote songsinspired by these women,

but the subjects still matter today.

And then at the end of aday, we would come together.

So there were six of these creative days.

At the end of each day,

and they were in a row,

three different two-day retreats.

At the end of the day,

we would all come together andsing the songs we'd written.

And it would be like,

"Well, we didn't really finish this one

"but we've got a verse in a chorus."

And everybody's just like wiping tears.

And it wasn't, "Hey, we'regonna create a project."

We just were saying,

"The whole mystery of creativityis you wake up one day,

"there's nothing, butyou pool your thoughts

"and your energy,

"and by the time you leave that gathering,

"there's songs," you know?

And so...

And then we filmed it in a setting

that was similar tothe way it was created.

All of us together, all of us singing

on each other's recordings

and on each other's songs.

And it was really, it wasso community building.

That was my favorite thing.

And when it was gonna be aired,

you know, you had to buy a ticket online.

And I didn't post on social media.

I individually called andtexted so many women I know.

Women from all differentsocioeconomic, racial,

faith backgrounds.

And I was like, "Would you?

"This requires a ticket,

"but it's gonna go tochildren through Compassion.

"I had so much fun working on this.

"Would you take time to watch this?"

And I got responses back like,

"The idea of spending twohours watching women be women

"does not appeal to me."

(Efrem laughing)- Oh, wow.

- And I was like, "Trustme, this is different."

And I would say, "Trustme, this is different."

And I still feel that way.

It was, I feel like even the recording,

I don't know if they'llever stream it again,

but it was the best of

community created by women.

And anyway.

There was one woman who hadjust had her baby there,

a photographer had her baby there.

So we're all going, "Oh yeah,working mothers, we get it."

You know?

But

anyway, it was,

it was beautiful on so many levels.

That's mostly what I feel.

- How important do you think it is

that we acknowledge andexplore the voices of women

in the faith?

- Well, I...

I think it's very important.

These are words are not mine,

and I'm gonna not saythem the right way, but,

you know, well, we do live in a quick,

(Amy snapping fingers)

everybody wants a quick response,

a quick, "I want somethingbetter. I want something."

I think even sometimes theway we look at faith is,

you know, "I'm gonna pray.

"I'm praying a prayer, God.You better fix this now."

But you know, things,

everything takes time and nurturing

and there's a hidden side to that,

and there's a laboring and an investment,

and there's pain, and there's sacrifice.

And all I know to say is that

every woman, that is the Gospel,

that is the Good News.

And you cannot be a woman

and not know that in aphysical way, you know?

Every good human birthed into the world,

that woman knows, "Oh,no love comes at a cost."

Patience, growth, suffering, sacrifice.

And I just feel like that'sa voice that women have

that is powerful and it's full of wisdom.

And I think that's a good.

Yeah, that's a good leveler.

(Amy and Efrem laughing)

- I love that.

I'd like to ask this question.

If you could go back intime and talk to young Amy,

and I know you wanteda longer name than Amy,

but if you could go backand talk to young Amy,

I think Amy Kaylynn Goldfish something?

(Efrem laughing)

- Yeah. Amy KayleeGoldfish Lynn Grant, yeah.

- [Efrem] What would you tell her?

- Oh God, that's funny.

Makes me love you that youactually remembered that.

Thank you.

What would I say?

Um...

Um...

All I, oh gosh.

I think I would just...

Just say, "Just be gentleon yourself," you know?

"Don't compare."

Yeah.

I don't know that I would.

Thank you for asking mesuch a thoughtful question.

I could cry answering it.

I would just say, "Lifehas so many chapters

"and you're not definedby one single chapter.

"And at the end, you know,

"your life will tell an amazing story."