(lively music)

- Well, I wanna welcomeyou Colleen Blake-Miller

to our show.

Colleen, thank you somuch for taking the time

to give us your insights today.

- Thanks for having me, Lorie.

It's wonderful to be here.

- I'm always curioushow people start doing

what they're doing.

So take me back a littleways and what lead you

into the field of mental health?

- You know, it's really,it's an interesting story.

I don't know how many people can say this,

but I have known that I wanted

to be in this kind of worksince a very young age.

I just remember being in elementary school

and one of my teachers holding up cards

with the names of differentprofessions on there,

or areas of study, and I justremember, as a young girl,

seeing the word psychologyand something in me

just resonated with that.

It's a strange story and ofcourse, at that young age,

I didn't know what that meant,

but I just knew every timeI saw the word psychology,

something in me just leaped.

- Oh wow.- So it was a natural sort

of progression to pursuethat educationally wise

and then, too, of course, socially.

I was that friend thateverybody talked to,

told all their problems and their issues

and stuff like that.

Talking and listening issort of like, I don't know,

that's where I just found myself in life.

- Well, that's so neat.

I mean, most people wouldrun away from the term,

you know, or the word psychology.

(laughing) So good for you,

good for you that you rantowards it and you know what,

we are so thankful forpeople like you that have,

love listening and loveleaning in and that's what,

that's the beautiful gift that you have.

Now, as you know,

a person who spends alot of time with people,

I bet you have some insightsas to what is the root,

what is this thing called shame,

and how big of a factor isit in our own mental health?

- Well, I think what weneed to remember about shame

is that it's not all bad.

Right, it's not all bad.

There's a reason for the emotion shame.

God created us with theability to feel this emotion.

And it serves us, it servesus in a really good way.

When we have a healthyrelationship with ourselves,

shame is used to actuallyhelp us put boundaries

in our life, you know, have limits.

For example, if I'm gonnago to the wash room,

I'm going to close the doorbecause I will feel shame

if it's open and peoplecan see me and obviously,

that's inappropriate as well.

So without shame there, then,

we wouldn't have those boundaries.

The issue is, when we have, I believe,

an unhealthy relationship with ourselves,

and the way that we seeourselves, then that, sort of,

is a breeding ground fortoxic shame to develop.

And so, toxic shame, I would call,

is just constantly feeling shame,

just by being, you know, just by existing.

- Wow.- You know,

it's not that it's a situation

that leaves you feeling shameful.

It's just something thatyou carry inside of you.

And obviously, you can seethat that's very problematic.

- Wow, wow, yeah.- And it is present in a lot

of common mental health illnesses.

- Wow, that's so interesting.

That is the first I'veever heard anyone say

that there is sort ofa good side of shame.

But you know, that's a helpful scenario.

We don't want shame to defineus and to become toxic.

So say shame has taken upa lot of space and place

in our thoughts, in ourminds, and how we see ourself.

How do we overcome it, then?

- I know that we see a lot

of positivity

and a lot of affirming wordsand we say a lot of slogans.

You know, love yourselfand believe in yourself.

And while that is theright path to go down on,

someone who is bound by toxic shame,

they don't even really resonate with that.

I mean, in some settings,maybe they'll nod their head,

but inside deeply,

they're not really ableto resonate with that.

So my thought is reallydoing some very deep,

deep work in uncovering their real sense

of self and working with individuals

who wrestle with toxic shame

on building up their identity,an identity that is healthy.

Like I said earlier,

it's a relationshipyou have with yourself.

You think about an unhealthyrelationship with someone

that you don't like or someonethat rubs you the wrong way.

Imagine that's the way thatyou felt about yourself,

that's gonna be a really,

really difficult way tonavigate through life.

Working with shame, we have to go deep.

We have to really uncoverthe way that you see yourself

and the way that you seeyourself in the world.

I would even say understandingthe way that God sees you

and really workingtowards aligning your view

of yourself with theview that God has of you.

- That's a really, thatis so true, Colleen.

I mean, we see in scripture,

we don't have a God thatspeaks shame to us, do we?

- That's right.

- Yeah, and I do, I agreewith you that sometimes,

we need to get to the root ofwhy we feel either unworthy

or not deserving or unloved or unwanted,

all those are shameful talk,

toxicity in our mind.

But God never says those things about us.

I'm sure as you deal with people

and there's lots of challenges.

In this time of COVID, boy,

I think we all need somehelp in giving perspective.

But what other mental healthchallenges are you seeing

that are coming your way these days?

- Yeah, so depression and anxiety.

Those are probably likenumber one and number two.

And then, issues around just self-worth,

just how you see yourself.

That, I would say, those are common things

that I see folks writingon their intake forms

and you know, when we're having consults,

a lot of folks are struggling

around those areas in their life.

And I mean, it's a really rough season

that we're in right now, right Lorie?

- Sure, yeah, yeah.- So it's understandable.

- Yeah.- Yup.

When do you know thatyou actually, I mean,

it's normal to feel a little down, right?

But when do you know,

what are signs that you mayneed some professional help?

- If you've tried to solvethe issues in your life

all of the ways you know how to do-

- Right.- And still,

things aren't working foryou, that might be a sign

that you need to seek out-- Yeah.

- Some professional support.- Yeah.

- If the people in yourlife that care about you

and know you really wellare expressing to you

their concern about your well being,

that might be a sign thatyou should speak to someone.

If you're getting feedback-- Yeah.

- Professionally, like at work, to say,

you're dropping the ball,

you're not able to kindof manage everything you

have on your plate, thatmight be a sign that you need

to carve out some time totalk with a professional.

- Yeah, that's really good.

- Tell signs, I would say, yeah.

- That's really good, I think.

Just one final question here.

Mental health and faith.

I mean, sometimes there'sa misconception that

as long as we have faith inJesus, we are gonna be okay.

How do you address thatsort of tension, perhaps,

that some people feel?

- Yeah, well, you know, the church,

we've gotta do a better jobat not shaming people for,

you know, the experienceof life because if we

are here long enough,

there are some rough parts

on the road.

- Yeah, yeah.- And we all need support,

we all need help.

And so, the idea ofmaking someone feel like,

well, your faith isn't bigenough or strong enough

or you're not connected enough to God.

We've gotta really do a betterjob at dispelling that myth.

I think that, as a Christian,who is a psychotherapist,

then Jesus is in the room with me while we

are sorting out some deepissues that feel heavy

in moments of life, of my clients.

- Yeah.- And so,

I think, you can definitelyblend the two beautifully.

I believe that the wordof God encourages us

that there's safety inthe midst of good counsel.

So I think that we justneed to be willing and able

to believe that our faith is able to grow

as we are able to understandourselves more fully,

as God has created us.

- That's really good, Colleen.

Well, I thank you for being with us today.

How can people find you?

- Colleen Blake-Miller isthe way you can find me.

If you type me into Google,Colleen, two L's, two E's.

- Okay.- I'm on Instagram.

- Okay.- Facebook, all the things,

as well.

- Wonderful.

Well, thanks for your timetoday and I encourage people

to take care of yourself because God,

He tells us love ourselves,

love our neighbors as we love ourselves.

So there's a command in scriptureto actually love yourself,

and I believe thatrequires some taking care.

Thanks Colleen, for helping us today.

- Thanks so much, Lorie.

Take care.