- Welcome back, I'm Roberto Torres-Cedillo

and I'm here with Gordon foranother round of Q and A.

Gordon, nearly one infive adults in the US,

lives with mental illness,

with anxiety and depressionbeing the most common.

When it comes to thetopic of mental health,

why do you think this issuch a taboo oftentimes

in the church and church culture?

- Well, as Christians we're taught that,

faith and hope and love,or the God of all hope,

we're taught that we'resupposed to always have a reason

for the hope within us and so,

when you're experiencinganxiety, depression,

you're essentiallyconfessing, I don't have that

and so, it sort of goes against the norm.

I think a lot of it is also

we've sort of conditioned ourselves

to not necessarily bereal in the large group,

the public service, thesermon, the church service.

I think the rise of small group in America

is going to really help people with this,

because in that small group,

you're actually encouraged to.

"Well, let's talk about our struggles."

Let's put aside that you become Christian,

everything's great.

Well, things are better,

but things can actually get worse

and life can come at you really hard

and it doesn't differentiate.

So it's to a degree taboo

and I kinda chalk it up to be

almost identical to talks about sex.

You don't hear it from the pulpit,

but if you need it, thereare ways within church

where you can find it and youcan be in a protected space

and we're not exposing yourinner secrets to everybody.

- Right

And it seems also that, well,because it's a complex issue,

it could be many factors as you know.

It could be biological,it could be trauma.

It could even be spiritual,

but sometimes I hear Christianssometimes good intentions,

or I don't know, maybenot so good intentions,

but they'll say, "Well, just pray more."

What do you say to peoplethat have kinda that approach,

you're just not praying enough?

- Well, they're blaming the victim.

If you're suffering withdepression and anxiety,

you are a victim of something.

It could be brain chemistry,but I think the usual thing

is just the stress of modern day life.

There could be sometrauma associated with it

and so, if you're going to get that

and then literally, it's gonna stop you

from asking further questions.

Anyone who's read the Old Testament

and familiar with the book of Ecclesiastes

or the book of Lamentations,

is familiar with here's Jeremiah,

who went through incredible hardship

and he is a young man going through this.

He's born into the priesthood.

He's a member of the priest family.

He's a Levi, God calls him at a young age.

He says, "Don't let anyone despise.

"I've known you from your mother's womb,"

but He's called him toprobably the most difficult,

prophetic role in Israel's history.

Where I, as a young man,have to point out the sin

that is so evident here.

And then say, "Because of this,

"Babylon is going to take the city,"

which is not a popular message.

And he was beaten for it.

He was thrown into a pit for it.

Nobody listened to him.

Even after the invasion,after the destruction,

he prophesies, "Let us stay here.

"God will bless us."

And but people say no,

and they literally kidnaphim and take him to Egypt.

So, he went through some trauma

and there's a reason he'swrites the book of Lamentations.

But I think the book ofLamentations is in the Bible for us.

That when you're goingthrough difficult times,

God understands.

He knows what you're going through.

Jesus knows exactly whatit's like to be despised,

to be rejected, to go through trauma.

He went through that.

He knows what it's like to be betrayed.

So he feels that with you

and realize He's therewith you in that moment.

And there's somethingwonderful that can happen,

where you can have thefellowship of suffering

together with the hope thatbecause Jesus went through it,

He can take you through it too

and there is a resurrectionat the other side.

- Yeah, I think it's so helpful

that you bring in thesebiblical characters

and we can see their humanity,

'cause sometimes I findthat, even unbelievers

think that these biblicalcharacters are superhuman,

or we put them in a pedestal

thinking that they neverstruggled with anything.

But I also thought ofElijah, where he prayed like,

" God take my life."

That's pretty,--- He was depressed. (chuckles)

- He was depressed and--- Living in a cave.

Running away from oppression,

the king and the queen wanted to kill him.

And he thought, no one inIsrael believes in God anymore.

That was the basis--- I'm the only one.

- And God had to reassure him that,

"No, no, I've got my treasured ones."

- Yeah, yeah, I've kept, I've reserved.

So, what are some ways, practical ways,

that Christians can approachthis very complex issue

of mental health, mental illness?

- I would encourage people toget the help that you need.

There are particularly for depression.

There are medications that you can go on.

You need to have apsychiatrist prescribe that,

that's a medical doctor.

And if the depression is long-lasting

and depression can get debilitatingwell, then by all means,

get the medical care you need.

If it's trauma-based,then that's something

that you need to talk that through.

And one of the best waysto talk that through,

is with people that havegone through similar things

and you'll find in thatfellowship and in that sharing,

where you're not going to be rejected.

So many trauma survivors,

worry about, "Are people gonna blame me?"

Or they worry, "Do I blame myself?"

And you need a protected environment,

to really examine that andreally talk through that

and come to conclusions.

Here's one of the keysand it's a very good key.

I can't change how I feel.

I can try all day long.

I can't change how I feel,

but I can change what I think about.

And when I say, "I'm goingto think on these things,"

the feeling can actually follow.

I'm not talking about somekind of positive affirmation,

repeated over and over again,

which surprisingly can workover a long period of time.

But it's when you startthinking about what God has done

and how God has intervened.

When you start thinking aboutthe sufferings of Jesus,

that He knows exactly what you're feeling.

When you think on the thingsthat are holy and are pure

and of good rapport,

these are the things that Paul encourages,

think on these things, it will change.

Worry and anxiety and depression,

come from thinking about your problem

or thinking about how hard it is

or thinking that your life is impossible.

And of course, if you thinkyour life's impossible,

well, you're gonna get depressed.

It's not going to change your feeling,

but when you start thinkingabout the good things,

then, hallelujah.

- Amen, if you or someoneyou know is struggling,

please get help or call

the National Suicide PreventionLifeline at 1-800-273-8255.