- [Reporter] New Yorktimes bestselling author

and cultural commentator Stephen Mansfield

is deeply concerned aboutthe current state of manhood.

He says, "Men are in crisis,

from every direction they're presented

with a deformed version of masculinity."

Stephen argues that men aremade for more than this.

In his book, "Men on Fire",

Stephen teaches men how toreclaim a righteous manhood

so they can live well, invest in others,

and leave a powerful legacy.

- Well, joining us now via Skype

is New York times bestsellingauthor, Stephen Mansfield.

Stephen, welcome to the show.

- Great to be with you.

Thank you.

- It's a great book,

I've already been goingover it with my boys,

and one of the things Ilike about your book is

you don't blame everyoneelse for the problems

men seem to have withtheir identity and purpose,

you go to men directly and challenge them.

What do you mean when you say

that most men nowadays seemto be living without fire?

- Well, they are livingwithout, not just purpose,

purpose is sort of directional,

but they're livingwithout the inner dynamo,

the energy, the drive,the thing that inspires.

You know, we all rememberwhat it was like when a coach,

or our father said, "You are this.

You are wonderful.

You can do good things.

You have real skills."

We felt 10 feet tall and bulletproof.

Men ought to feel thatbecause of the forces

that God has ordainedto work in their souls,

but when I look in the malls,when I look in the streets,

when I look at the faces of a lot of men,

I see they don't have that inner fire,

they don't have that inner drive,

they don't have thatinner sense of purpose

that would make all the difference.

- Why are we like that?

Why are men walking around that way?

- Well, it's a combination of things.

First of all, we live in a society

that treats masculinity like it's toxic.

Second of all, as your showchronicles often, and very well,

we have broken homes,we have fatherless kids.

We don't tend to have models.

And then of course we don't,the main thing I focus on is

we don't have a culture ofmen that then initiates boys,

transfers that lore of manhoodto the next generation,

encourages that in our generation.

And so, as a result,men tend to be aimless.

I call it the gorilla theory of men.

They're sitting in a cage,scratching themselves,

eating a banana, trying tofigure out what's going on

because society is telling them

that they're not capable of living

in this current information society.

- Do you think all toooften, we're just, as men,

trying to seek leisure andavoid conflict and competition?

And one of the negatives about this is

it's rubbing off on our teenagers.

You've mentioned in your book,

a lot of coaches talk aboutnot seeing fire in young men

on their own baseball teams,

sports teams, football teams, etcetera.

- Yeah. You know, actually

pleasure is a substitute for purpose.

Think about that.

Men will go after pleasure

when they don't knowwhat else to go after,

when they don't go after the bigger things

that they're meant to be about,

and then they transfer thisto the next generation.

I've spoken to

a lot of high schoolfootball coaches of late,

and they say, "My kids are great,

the kids on my team are great,

but they don't have the fire,they don't have the drive,

they don't have thecommitment, the excellence

that previous generations have had.

And again, this is a matter of fathering,

this is a matter of not telling them

what it means to be a man,

this is a matter of not telling them

how to deal with the forcesthey feel in their own souls.

So without that proper manly coaching,

they're gonna pursue pleasure

just like the older generation does.

- You mentioned something in your book

that I've absolutelyfound with my colleagues,

with my friends, so to speak,

and that is the more indepth of getting our careers

and with our families, ourfriendships really suffer.

How vital is it for a manto have strong friendships?

- You know, actually manly friendships

is one of the unique gifts of men.

I think we've got totalk about it that way.

Men are made to bond with each other.

We talk about women beingespecially good at this,

and they are, but in their own way.

We have our way of doing it.

And so, we see, of course,

the suicide rate is high in our society.

We see that men don'ttend to have friends.

So we've got to have men around us

who are inspiring us, encouraging us,

we're doing the same with them.

I call it a band of brothers.

I've got mine,

they've made all thedifference in the world.

And so, that is anabsolutely essential skill

that we've got to recover in our time.

- Talk about band of brothers,and kind of playing off that,

I love the illustration in yourbook about lions and tigers

and how important it is

to learn from the waythey fight and battle.

Can you talk about that a little bit?

- Oh yeah, I love this illustration.

One-on-one a tiger willalways defeat a lion,

zoologists tell us,

but five lions will beat five tigers.

Why is that?

Because lions know how to fight in teams.

They know how to pick one off,

they know how to communicate,

they know how to work as a team.

And that's the way men need to be.

They don't need to walk alone.

They don't need to walk,you know, in isolation

like so many men today,

they need to have teamswho fight for them.

In my band of brothers,

there's one of our band ofbrothers, one of our men,

who battles depression.

Well, we know how to fight for him.

We know how to encourage him.

We know what scriptures to use.

We know what the peoplein history to quote.

We know how to stand with him,

and work with his childrenand work with his wife.

These same guys stand with me

when I travel in dangerousparts of the world,

or do things that are challenging.

They're fighting,they're standing with me,

they're calling me.

They're asking me ifI am meeting too much,

they're asking me if, you know,

there's any problemwith ladies on the road,

or anything like that.

They can ask anything they want,

even if it's never been an issue,

because I want them tostand and fight for me,

and that makes all the difference.

Most men don't have that.

- You say in your bookthere are seven fires

that really ought to burn inside of a man.

Share a couple that youthink are the most important.

- Well, I think men are meant to have

the power of heritageburning in their souls.

This is a deposit that comes

from maybe their nation,or their ethnic group,

but even their own family line.

It's what has come downthrough the family lines.

So good things.

It's the virtues.

I'll use my situation as an example,

I come from a long line of military men.

They were heroes, they were decorated.

They fought in Vietnam,they fought in Korea,

they fought in World War II.

Well, I've never served in uniform,

but still that character,that nature, that heroism,

it burns in my soul, and I'vepassed it on to my children.

Not long ago,

my daughter was goingthrough a difficult time,

and she said, "If granddadcould do what he did in Vietnam

and save all those lives,I can get through this."

Now she'll never serve in uniform,

but that's the power ofheritage working in her life.

- Of course, the church is a great way

to find spiritual support,friendships, etcetera,

but you made some really great points

about the struggles menhave in today's church.

Of course, a lot of thiswas before the virus hit

and we're all isolated, etcetera,

but why do most men, or a lot of men,

not connect well at church?

- Well they certainly can connect well,

but the churches have to work at it.

Men perceive churches as placesthat are somewhat feminine.

That's not because ofthe pastors necessarily,

but church is about emotionsoften, it's about music,

it's about listening,it's about higher thought.

Men can do those things,

but they've gotta be bondedwith other men to do it,

they've got to have other reasons.

The pastor's got to bean inspiring male model,

if it's a male.

So, we can do this,

but the surveys show thatmost men are bored in church,

most men don't findconnection to other men,

most men don't have a purpose.

Now this is starting to change

as churches are starting to realize

how to get men to team up,

how to give them social service projects,

how to get them overseas,

how to get them encouragingrighteousness in each other.

So, you know the old joke,

that church is where manhood goes to die

and a man eating lion

would die of starvation in most churches,

but that's changing in our generation,

and men need to recognizethat it's changing

and start to bond together

for higher purposes within the church.

- For a woman who's watching and says,

"I want to be able to support my husband.

I want to support my man."

What's the best practical way to do that?

- If women will not onlyspeak positively of their men,

you know the power of words.

I light up my wife and her heart

by saying kind, and loving,and encouraging things to her,

she certainly does to me,

but also encourage thetime with other men.

What we don't want in thehome is a resentment system.

"Oh, you're going out withthe boys tonight, okay."

You know, that kind of thing.

And men do the same thing.

My wife is thrilled when Iget with my band of brothers,

she wants to hear afterwardswhat they challenged in me

and what I challenged in them,if it's not confidential.

She encourages that time,she knows I come home better.

She does everything she canto support it, or send food,

or talk to the guys and say,

"Hey, I'm thrilled you're with Stephen."

If women will encouragethe kind of activities

that make their husbands better men,

their time in the wild,their time with each other,

they will come back,they'll be better fathers,

better husbands, bettermen in the communities,

and it would be worth the investment.

I think that's a lot of it.

You don't want that sense ofthe resentment from the wife

if you're trying to do thingsthat make you a righteous man.

- All right, great stuffStephen, I so appreciate it.

The book is fantastic, itis called "Men on Fire".

It's available wherever books are sold.

Stephen, thanks so muchfor joining us today.

- Great to be with you my friend.