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Christian World News - Hagia Sophia Controversy - July 24, 2020

Turkey’s president turns the Hagia Sophia into a mosque to gain more influence in the Islamic world, but some are standing up to him. Read Transcript


- [George] This week onChristian World News.

For the first time in nearly a century,

Islamic prayers are beingheard in the Hagia Sophia.

How will this affectChristians in the region

and why is this well-knownMuslim speaking out?

- [Wendy] Plus, a new day in Sudan.

The country once known for

its harsh persecution of Christians

takes a dramatic stepfor religious freedom.

- [George] And asuccessful American pastor

gives it all up and moves to Africa,

despite the trials and tribulations,

he says he would do it all over again.

(dramatic theme music)

- Hello everyone, welcometo this week's edition

of Christian WorldNews, I'm George Thomas.

- And I'm Wendy Griffith,thanks for being with us.

Well, for the first timein the nearly 90 years,

the Hagia Sophia mosquein Istanbul, Turkey

has opened to Muslim prayers.

The move is seen as part of a wider vision

to expand Turkish PresidentErdogan's influence

in the region and the Muslim world.

- Erdogan's move is coming under fire

from both world leadersand a major NBA star,

who is a Muslim.

CBN Middle East bureau chief,Chris Mitchell, explains

why he's speaking out.

- [Chris] Despite objectionsfrom the US, Russia,

the UN and the Eastern Orthodox churches,

President Erdogan moved forward

on converting the historical landmark.

- If definitely broke my heart

because I feel like it'sone of Erdogan's games

and I feel like it's completelypolitically motivated.

- [Chris] Turkish citizen andBoston Celtic, Enes Kanter,

told CBN News why he alsoobjected to Erdogan's move.

- It's away from modernTurkey's secular roots,

and also Turkey has enoughmosques around that area,

and they're not even half full.

So why would you convertanother church to a mosque?

- [Chris] A Muslim, Kanteris devoted to dialogue

and reaching out across

religious, ethnic and cultural barriers.

- I feel sad for all my,you know, Christians,

my brothers and sisters out there

because the Hagia Sophia was

a world United Nations Heritage Site.

So as a Muslim, I'm deeplypained by the decision.

When I was in Turkey, I hadso many Christian friends.

They're actually one of the most humble

and one of the most, you know,kind people I've ever met.

- [Chris] For years, Kanter,a human rights advocate,

has spoken out againstTurkey's human rights record.

- Turkey is the number one in the world

that put most journalists in jail.

That shows that there's nofreedom of speech in Turkey.

True religion or expression,

there's no democracy or human rights,

and just because I talkabout these issues,

the Turkish government basicallydeclared me as a terrorist.

I actually answered them back and said,

only thing I terrorizeis the basketball rim.

- [Chris] This outspokennesshas cost Kanter

and his family a price.

His father has spent sevenyears in and out of jail.

- I get death threats almost every day.

Yesterday, I actually posted a couple

on my social media, but you know,

in American I'm safe,but Turkish government

put my name on Interpol.

So just because I'm notan American citizen yet,

if I leave America, then theycan deport me back to Turkey.

So I'm just waiting tobe an American citizen.

- [Chris] Kanter becomes anAmerican citizen next year.

And for him, it's about speaking out

for those unseen and unheard.

- You guys know my storybecause I'm playing in NBA.

But there are thousandsof stories out there

whose situation is way worse than mine.

That is one of the biggest reasons

that I'm still outspoken aboutwhat's happening in Turkey,

just because there's so many people

in jail right now waiting for help.

- Chris is here now with us.

Chris, talk about the ripple impact

Erdogan's decision has hadin the Middle East so far.

- Well certainly, there'sbeen a big reaction, George.

The Eastern Orthodox churches,the Greek Orthodox church,

the Russian Orthodox church.

The Greek Prime Minister said this was

an affront against Mankind.

Even some Muslim nations,like the UAE, condemned it,

and thought the churchshould continue to be

sort of a cultural icon.

So in the larger context,I think it can be seen

that Erdogan, tryingto extend his influence

and also trying to revivethis neo-Ottoman empire

and seeing himself as the new Caliph.

- Obviously, all of thisnews coming as, you know,

Christians are wonderingwhat this means for them.

Turkey's Christians arevery tiny tiny minority

that you and I have reported on.

Do they fear this could be a green light

for more persecution against them?

- George, I think definitely.

In fact, I think the greenlight is already there.

We're seeing, in thelast several few months

that at least 50 Protestants,

sometimes leader ofthese churches in Turkey

have either become persona non grata.

They have had their visas revoked

or they've been given maybea couple of weeks to leave.

As I said, maybe about 50in the last few months,

so I think this really is a signal,

an accelerated, maybe evena more bright green light

against religious minoritiesand especially, as you said,

this tiny minority of Protestantministers there in Turkey.

- The Turkish basketballplayer, Enes Kanter,

is a Muslim and he's taking a great risk

by speaking out against Erdogan's plans

to turn the Hagia Sophiainto a Muslim structure

and a place of worship for Muslims.

Incidentally, you had achance to interview him

and there's a part of the interview

that apparently had avery strong impact on him.

Tell us about that, Chris.

- It really did, George,and this was actually

after the interview wassort of officially over,

and we were just talking to him

and I asked him aboutthe danger that he faces.

He was saying that hegets daily death threats

on his social media.

His father had been inprison, in and out of jail

for about seven years, andso I asked him about this

and it led to this interchange

between myself and Enes Kanter,

the Boston Celtics Center.

- Do you mind if I pray for you?

- Well yeah, for sure,that'd be amazing actually.

- Yeah yeah, well Father,I just thank you for Enes,

and Lord, I just want to prayfor protection, first of all,

from any threats, from any danger

and I ask that in Jesus' name, amen.

- Yeah, amen, thank you guys so much.

It was amazing, sincerely.

It was one of the most warmconversations I ever had.

I appreciate it.

- Quite remarkable, and obviously,

probably meant a lot for you

because you are a BostonCeltics fan, right?

- (laughing) I am, I ama Boston Celtics fan,

but ore than that, George, itreally was a touching moment,

and as you said, itreally touched his heart.

I found him to be verysoft-spoken, tender-hearted,

really has a heart for human rights,

and it was just a wonderful interchange

between myself, a committed Christian

and he's a Muslim, but he really does need

prayer and protection becauseof his outspoken views

on what's happening inside Turkey.

He talked about his Christianbrothers and sisters.

His best friend, he said,in Turkey is a Christian.

So he's got a really tender heart

for Christians there in Turkey.

- Okay Chris, thank you somuch for coming on the show.

Appreciate it, stay safe, buddy.

- Amazing interview, coming up,

religious freedom comes to Sudan.

How did one of the worstpersecutors in the world

make a dramatic turnaround?

We'll tell you right after this.

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- [Announcer] As the worldwatches from the outside,

- It's a big diplomatic tug ofwar here in the Middle East.

- [Announcer] go inside the story

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- Israeli archeologists aretalking about a discovery

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- What starts in Israel thenends up going to other places.

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- In Borno State, Nigeria, radical Muslims

executed five men on camera,

calling it a warning to those

who are convertingMuslims to Christianity.

Morningstar News reports the video

was posted on YouTubebefore being taken down.

A Borno resident identified two of the men

as aid workers and anotheras a security guard,

all of them members of local churches.

In a previous video, theChristians identified their captors

as belonging to a Boko Haramsplinter group called Calipha.

- Leaving Islam for Christianity,

or for that matter, any other faith

can lead to death sentence

in many parts of the Muslim world.

Not too long ago, that was the case

in the Northern African nation of Sudan,

but the country's new government

has scrapped the controversial law.

Recently, I talked aboutthis extraordinary event

with the Vice Chair

of the US Commission onInternational Religious Freedom.

Take a listen.

If a Muslim living in Sudan decided

to abandon his or her faith

or convert to another religion,

for example, like Christianity,

this person would be stoned.

You know, for nearly 30 years,

Sudan's apostasy law, basedon strict Islamic sharia law

condemned to death anyone foundguilty of violating the law.

But now, in a dramatic reversal,

the overwhelming Muslim nation in Africa

has decided to scrap the death penalty,

and introduce a host of political reforms

that experts hope will improve the lives

of the Sudanese people, especially

woman and minority faith groups.

The US Commission onInternational Religious Freedom

has welcomed steps taken bySudan's interim government,

calling the legislative reforms, quote,

"significant and historic."

USCRIF's Vice Chair, Anurima Bhargava

Joins me now for more.

It's great to have you on the broadcast.

You know, Sudan was one of12 countries in the world

punishing apostasy by death, not anymore.

How significant is this?

- It's extraordinarilysignificant because I think,

in so many ways, what we've seen in Sudan,

which was, after 30 years ofrule by an Islamist regime,

in protests that broughtdown that government,

we are now seeing massivereforms across the country,

including this most recent move

to make sure that apostasyis no longer something

that would be punishable by death.

And I think, for the Commission,

and for many around the world,

sudan is a place that we can now look to

to see how it is that we can move

from extraordinarily restrictive regimes,

particularly for women, to a place

where there is much more belonging

for people of all religious faiths,

and where religious freedom can thrive.

- I remember coveringthe conflict in Sudan,

whether it was with Darfur or

between the North and theSouth for many many years,

and to see an overwhelmingly Muslim nation

to take such a step in terms of reform

and reforming aspects ofits Islamic penal code

is quite significant.

I'm curious, the amendment,I'm sure, is good news

for Sudan's non-Muslim community, right?

- It's good news for thenon-Muslim community.

Actually, since a jointcivilian-military government

came into place in August of last year,

we've seen a number of reforms.

We've seen everything from Christmas

being declared a national holiday.

We've seen the disbandingof church councils

that had been used to intimidate churches

and their practices.

We've seen, you know, a Coptic woman

who was actually part of oneof the most senior councils

in Sudan and we've seenthis most recent round

of reforms, which include

the banning of female genital mutilation,

include efforts to try and make sure

that laws that said thatMuslims could not drink alcohol,

those are all the thingsthat have actually benefited,

not only the Christian communities

that have long been persecuted in Sudan,

but Muslim communities as well,

and the guardianshiplaw, and that was a law

that required women to get a permit

from a male guardian tobe able to travel abroad.

Those are all part of thismost recent round of reforms

that includes the changesto the apostasy law.

- Absolutely, a new dawnin the nation of Sudan.

Thank you so much forcoming on the broadcast.

(screen whooshing)

- [Wendy\ Up Next, after 26years of ministry in America,

this pastor felt a tug on his heart.

We'll tell you about his amazing

leap of faith right after this.

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- Welcome back to Christian World News.

He was a popular pastorof a thriving church,

so why did he give itall up to go to Africa?

- Well, I recently satdown with Michael Simone

to learn about his leap of faith

and why he'd do it all over again.

(speaking foreign language)

- God supplied our need.

- [Wendy] Michael Simonefelt born to preach,

and he did just that for 26 years,

mostly at Spring Branch CommunityChurch in Virginia Beach,

a church he helped grow from a few people

meeting in a house tomore than 3000 members.

Then one day, he says hefelt a tug on his heart,

and the Lord whispered.

- I'm gonna take you somewhere else now.

There's a new adventure.

- [Wendy] That new adventurebegan with a chance meeting

in Denmark with Michel, a pastor

from the West African nation of Togo.

- I didn't know what to say

and I thought, what would be

a good question to ask this man?

- An icebreaker.

- Yeah, I thought, ah, I have it,

a really good American question.

What is your dream?

And the next words thathe spoke changed my life

because he said, "My dreamis to save my village.

"Will you help me?"

- [Wendy] Michel's dreaminvolved digging water wells,

something Michael knew very little about.

- His problem was, people inhis village were really sick.

Children were sick, animals were sick,

everybody had intestinal parasites.

They didn't have access to clean water,

so they couldn't grow their crops.

So everything fallsapart without the water.

- [Wendy] A year later,Michael and a few others

flew to Africa to dig a wellfor Pastor Michel's village,

but there was a problem.

- A geological study was saying

that there's no way

that we could get water at this village

because 40 feet, 50 feet down,

you would hit graniterock that was so thick

that, unless you weregonna drill through it,

there was no way thatyou were gonna get water.

So I said to my team, I'm still going,

but you don't have togo if you don't want to.

Everybody on the team said, "We're going."

- [Wendy] On Sunday, about500 villagers showed up

for an outdoor church service.

- I said to them, "Letme tell you what it says

"in Nehemiah 2:20.

"It says the God of Heavenwill give us success."

He is faithful to us.

I was hangin' by a thin thread of faith.

We must be faithful to him.

- [Wendy] All week long,they drilled, but no water.

- We got down to the last day,

to the last half hour of theday when we had to leave.

In the last few moments,they installed this pump,

this special pump, and then they capped it

with a pumping device, a handle,

and we all sat there and held our breath,

and they started pumping.

As they started pumping,

all of a sudden, water came flying out.

(people shouting)

It flew all over everybody.

The villagers were all excited

and clapping and laughing and smiling.

It was like somebodyjust won the Superbowl.

- [Wendy] But it wasn't over.

A year later, Michael wentback to check on the village

and visit his friend Michel,when his friend said.

- "We need big water."

And I said, "What is big water?"

He said, "We have to go deep."

So what he was saying is,you have to drill down

through the granite.

You have to go down about a hundred yards,

so 300 feet straight downto hit a major aquifer,

and if you can hit a major aquifer,

you can have water forever.

- Because that well that you had just done

was just for one village.

- One village, and it was only rainwater

'cause of the rainy season.

- Big water equals bigmoney though, right?

- To do that project is a $60,000 project

whereas to drill onewell is a $2000 project.

So, we raised $60,000.

- [Wendy] So Michaeland his team went back.

- We drilled through thegranite straight down.

We hit the big aquifer.

It just exploded, waterexploded everywhere.

We capped it, we built a tower.

We brought the pipes.

So all of a sudden, 22 villages had water.

- [Wendy] Did you thinkyou were done then?

- I did, and I thought,okay, we did big water,

but then it turns out, nowwe're doing big water 2.

- [Wendy] Michael now realized,

this was where God was calling him,

and he started the Togo Network.

- My goal is to build a network,

which is why we call it Togo Network,

of people and churches and businesses

who will wrap their arms around

this tiny, West African country

and say, "We're gonna bring the water.

"We're gonna bring the medicine.

"We're gonna bring the education.

"We're gonna help take careof the orphans with you.

"We're here to serve you."

- Michael says theirmission to dig deep wells

that can supply hundredsof villages has no end.

They're already lookingtoward Big Water 3 and beyond.

- God said, your last run is this,

and you're gonna get water and health

to people in West Africabecause that's on my heart.

(water gushing)

- You know that's God whenhe calls you to go to Africa.

- (laughing) Right, well hey,that's your home country.

You should know.

- Yeah, yeah.

- I love this story becausehe got out of his comfort zone

and he heard God say, "I'mtaking you on a new adventure."

And I think that can speak to all of us.

- Absolutely, new adventures.

Well folks, stay with us.

We'll be back right after this.

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- Welcome back, for months,the big story in Israel

was the possible annexationof Judea and Samaria,

also known as the West Bank,

but with COVID-19 puttingthe nation under lockdown

and creating a politicalcrisis for the government,

the issue seems to havefallen off the radar screen.

New York Times bestselling author

and Middle East expert, Joel Rosenberg

supports annexation,but he recently told us

that a delay might not be a bad thing.

- Standing with Israel as strongly

as the Trump team has would mean,

don't add a new element inthe US-Israeli relationship

between now and November, right.

I actually think it's pro-Israel

to just let Israel workits way through Covid

and through the economic challenges

and keep working on trying to

open up peace opportunitieswith the Gulf states.

Don't add a new controversial complicator

into that equation.

I think that is the mostpro-Israel position.

- By the way, construction for

a brand new neighborhood in Jerusalem

turned into a majorarcheological excavation.

- As it often does.

- It does all the time.

- When Israeli expertsdiscovered artifacts

from the ancient kingdom of Judah,

our Emily Jones has thatstory and more from Jerusalem.

(Middle Eastern music)

- Welcome to Jerusalem

for this Inside Israel report,

where we tell you what'shappening in Israel

and the Middle East.

Unrest is shaking the streets of Jerusalem

and Tel Aviv as thousands gather

for nearly daily protests

against Netanyahu and his government

Many are outraged at how Netanyahu

is handling the Coronavirus crisis,

as the nation battles a second wave

and economic turmoil.

Others called for the leader's resignation

because he is on trial forserious corruption charges.

He denies all allegations.

While the protests are mostly peaceful,

some have clashed with the police,

leading to dozens of arrests.

Israel is credited with carrying out

a deadly air raid against Iranian targets

in Syria this week.

The Britain-based SyrianObservatory for Human Rights

said, "The strike had targeted

"government and Iranianmilitia posts inside Syria,

"killing at least fiveIranian-backed fighters

"and seven Syrian soldiers."

Israel rarely comments on such incidents,

but in the last two months,

Syria has accused Israel of carrying out

at least eight airstrikes in its territory.

It also comes against the backdrop

of a series of mysteriousexplosions inside Iran

that have rocked nuclearenrichment facilities,

power plants and othersensitive sites in recent weeks.

Israel has uncovered amajor archeological find

from the times of KingHezekiah and his son, Manasseh,

right here in Jerusalem.

Excavators uncovered a2700-year-old storage center

used for government activitiesby the kingdom of Judah.

Inside, 120 jar handleswith seal impressions,

written in Hebrew.

Many of the inscriptions read, quote,

"Belonging to the king."

They also found clayfigurines at the site,

probably used for idol worship,

which lines up perfectlywith the biblical account.

(speaking foreign language)

- [Interpreter] While true, it does not

align with the commandment,

do not make for yourself anidol or any molten image.

We know, from thedescription in scripture,

that the prophets are constantly warning

the nation that it isworshiping foreign gods.

- According to the Bible, King Manasseh

reversed the religious reforms made

by his father, Hezekiah,and re-established

pagan worship in Judah.

Researchers also said this site

dates back to the time of theAssyrian siege of Jerusalem.

Thank you so much forjoining us this week.

For more stories like this,

you can watch ourJerusalem Dateline program

at cbnnews.com.

- Well, the nation of Israelis just a treasure trove

of archeological nuggets.

- (laughing) He is so dramatic.

- I know, really.

- It's Friday.- It is.

- Well, for some of us.- Well folks thank you so much

for joining us this week, folks.

- Until next week, from all of us here,

goodbye and God bless you.

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