- Well as a pastor's child,

Catherine Mullins began leadingworship when she was young,

but by the time she was an adult

Catherine had every intentionof getting a business degree.

But she says, "God had other plans."

- [Narrator] Worshipleader and song writer,

Catherine Mullins believesthat we should use praise

and worship as weapons

to change the circumstances around us.

- Lord says this, He says,"Don't worship me this way,

"worship me this way."

And He goes and outlines howHe wants to be worshiped.

- [Narrator] In her new CD,"Sing Like the Battle is Over,"

Catherine helps us understandthe power of our praise

and shows how to use the toolsthat God has given to us.

- Well Catherine's here with us

and Catherine it's greatto have you on the show.

- I'm so excited to be here,

thank you for having us.

- What got you intobeing a worship leader?

- Well, being a pastor'skid you just oftentimes

get thrown into it (laughs).

- Really?- Yeah, so I,

- I would never.(both laughing)

- So I started at a young age just 'cause

there was a need for it

and finally one day itjust really connected

and my heart began to burn with a passion

to worship and to helplead others into worship.

- Okay, one of thethings that fascinates me

about you is you've actually done a study

in the Bible of proper ways to worship

and you discovered thatthere are actually ways

that are offensive to God.

- Yeah.- Tell us about it.

- Well it's so interesting'cause one of the phrases

that I've said for so long is,

"worship however youfeel led to lead worship"

and I totally agree with that

because there is beautifuldiversity in the body of Christ.

But with that, God hasoutlined in scripture

a way that He wants to be worshiped

and the only way for usto really discover that

is to get to know Him again.

And to get to know what the word says.

And so when we look throughout the Bible

of what is outlined inscripture concerning worship,

there are rules to it.

Worship looks radical,praise looks radical,

there's always actionconnected to praise and worship

which I love.

- Okay, and you've alwaysput that into action.

I've seen you and it's absolutely amazing

what God does to you.

One of the foundationalverses for you in worship

is Jesus saying, "Worship in spirit

- [Both] "and in truth."

- Absolutely.- For those

that don't understand what that means,

what does that mean.

- So, there's such a fine balance

because I think sometimeswe think that our worship

just needs to be whenwe feel like worshiping.

And so I think one of the balance is,

is we've gotta make sure thatour heart pasture is right

to the Lord, that we'regiving Him the praise

that He's worthy of,but the issue comes down

to I feel like especially in my generation

is we only worship whenwe feel like it sometimes.

But praise,- My generation too.

- Yeah.(both laughing)

- Very true.- You can praise

the Lord at all times,- Yeah.

- but, it's when we feel like it.

- Yeah, absolutely.

And so getting beyond that

because what Jesus did on the cross

is so incredible, He reallyis worthy of everything,

He really is seated atthe right hand of God,

worthy of the highest praise.

And so making a decision that regardless

of whether we feel like it,

our heart is to love him no matter

what our feelings are saying.

And so making a decision in a culture

that is very us-driven,

to get back to loving Him theway that He wants to be loved,

where it comes to spirit and in truth

and how does He really wanna be loved

and then loving Him that way.

- I've seen you literally turn in worship

and just say, well, we'regonna go another way.

And you don't announcethat, you just do it.

What is happening withyou when that is going on?

- I think one of the toolsthat God gives worship leaders

and God gives all of us isthe ability to hear His voice

and so it's really importantin a worship environment,

we're leading people intoan encounter with the Lord

and to give Him the praisethat He's worthy of,

so we have an obligation to hear

what God wants to do during a service.

And so with that I create a set list

and I make sure that we're prepared,

but we leave room for God to interrupt us

and so Holy Spirit cando whatever He wants,

He's the conductor of the service.

So with that, that means thatwe've gotta hear from the Lord

what He wants to do andhave our ear tuned to heaven

and say, "God, okay, we'relistening because you know

"what is needed for this service

"so people can really encounter you

"and get beyond themselvesand get over the obstacles

"that are keeping them from worship."

- Well, I'll be for a moment critical.

I've seen some worshipwhere you get the sense

that it's performanceand what you just said,

"I'm here to lead people into worship."

You're actually communicatingnot just with God,

"God what do you want,"

but you're also communicatingwith the congregation.

- Absolutely.- And you're sensing

where the congregation is- Yeah.

- and where are they willing to go?

- Yeah.- How do you balance the two?

- You know it is a fine balance

and I think it can bedifferent for different people,

but the thing is remembering that it is

a point of pastoringpeople into an encounter.

And so in the sense of,

- That's a great phrase.- somebody asked me

this question.- Pastoring people

into an encounter, I love it.

- Well, and somebodyasked me this question

a long time ago.

Do you think Jesus would prefer just you

to worship, me to worship, in the room,

or everyone on the room to worship?

And Jesus is worthy ofeveryone worshiping.

And so I think the balanceis as worship leaders,

we can easily go there,

but we're leading peopleinto that encounter

and so we've gotta makesure we kind of lead

with one eye open a little bit

to make sure they're following us.

Because there's people that have dealt

with different issues throughout the week

and they're not necessarily where we are

and that's okay because we have the tools

to remove the obstacles withthe help of the Holy Spirit

to get them to a place of worship

that they were made to be at.

- Okay, you got a new CD coming out

which is for my generation.

(laughing) Your generation,do you still listen to CDs?

You're releasing 'em.

For you, what goes into creating songs?

- Okay, so this is again I fine balance.

So, for me, I love to take moments

that the Holy Spirit hasbreathed on, spontaneous moments.

So it could be just a phrase or a line

and then I like to expand upon that.

So, even one of the songs, it says,

"Our God is fighting evenwhen we cannot see it."

And so I kind of took that phrase

and then from there Iwrote a song about that.

And so I love to take those moments

that Holy Spirit's breathing on

and then say okay, let's finish the story

and then make it congregational friendly

so everybody can, again, worship with it.

- Let's talk about one of my favorites,

"Sing Like the Battle is Over."

- Okay.- Which is remarkably

scriptural and yet it's not.

You've created a wholenew way of looking at it.

Where did that one come from?

- I was thinking aboutthe victory at the cross

and how we're fightingfrom a place of victory,

but there is still a fight,

a war that we're allin, says in Corinthians.

And I was thinking about Joshua

and the battle of Jericho, it'sone of my favorite stories.

When I was writing thesong, I actually imagined

in my mind's eye, being at that moment

where they're marching around the wall,

they're just doing it out of obedience,

it doesn't make sense, it'suncomfortable, it's scary,

they don't know the outcome.

- You might be feeling silly.- Yeah, very silly.

And I can imagine that moment

when just out of obediencethey lift up their voice

and then the first stoneon the wall begins to move.

And I think, I would'velost my mind at that moment.

I would've thought, Godis who He says that He is,

He really is real.

And so taking that andsaying, "I'm going to sing

"like the battle's all ready over,

"like the wall has already fallen."

Because 2,000 years agoit did at the cross.

- All right, you're about to perform

a song called, "Never Lost."

It's another one of my favorites.

What can you tell us about that one?

- So I was going through apretty hard season of life

and I remember just dealingwith this specific situation

and I honestly didn't know what to do.

And I prayed about it.

I had spoken to it.

I had yelled at it.

I didn't know what to do.

And I remember sittingdown at my keyboard,

my weapon of choice at the time

and just I said, "Lord, I needa word from you specifically

"about this situation."

And immediately I saw mymind's eye Zechariah 4:7

where it says, "Whoare you great mountain?

"You are going to become aplain in front of Zerubbabel."

And so from that I justkind of kept saying that

over and over again andthen I heard the phrase,

"Jesus defeated the darkness,He's never lost a battle."

And so at that point, I wasjust kind of running up and down

my hall at my house and just saying,

"Jesus defeated the darkness,He's never lost a battle."

And from writing that song,

there were three thingsthat I really felt like

I needed to have happenwith this situation

and all of them shifted after that.

In that moment I experienced the God

who has never lost a battle in my life.

- Okay, well, to hear we'regonna let you get ready to sing

so I'm gonna release you- Okay.

- to go over there and you'vegot your weapon of choice,

you got a keyboard.- All right, yes.

- And so if you go ahead and go

and if you wanna hear morefrom Catherine Mullins,

be sure to go to our Facebook page,

it's Facebook.com/700Club.

You can watch an exclusivebehind the scenes interview

with her and then onceagain, Catherine's new CD

is called, "Sing Like the Battle is Over."

It releases nationwide next week.

You can't get it this week,but you can get it next week.

But you can pre-ordera copy of it on iTunes

or wherever music is sold.

Now with her husband DavidRobbins on the weapon of choice,

here's Catherine Mullinswith, "Never Lost."

(audience clapping)

♪ He is my faithful father ♪

♪ Calling me out of the dark ♪

♪ And night cannot whisper away ♪

♪ What he said in the light ♪

♪ He is my firm foundation ♪

♪ My anchor won't be moved ♪

♪ Storms may collide but my soul ♪

♪ Is on fire with his word ♪

♪ Wind listen to the sound ♪

♪ Of power on my lips ♪

♪ Jesus has broken the curse ♪

♪ He has never lost a battle ♪

♪ He's never lost ♪

♪ He's never lost ♪

♪ He is the only healer ♪

♪ His love will never fail ♪

♪ All my belief daresto defeat every lie ♪

♪ He is a strong high tower ♪

♪ Fear will not find me there ♪

♪ I come alive with Hispromise inside of my heart ♪

♪ Oh ♪

♪ Wind listen to the sound ♪

♪ Of power on my lips ♪

♪ Jesus has broken the curse ♪

♪ He has never lost a battle ♪

♪ Who are you great mountain ♪

♪ That you should not bow low ♪

♪ Jesus defeated the darkness ♪

♪ He has never lost a battle ♪

♪ So Christ redeemer we remember ♪

♪ He has won the war ♪

♪ Jesus mighty overcomer ♪

♪ Our defender has conquered ♪

♪ Wind listen to the sound ♪

♪ Of power on my lips ♪

♪ And Jesus has broken the curse ♪

♪ He has never lost a battle ♪

♪ Who are you great mountain ♪

♪ That you should not bow low ♪

♪ And Jesus defeated the darkness ♪

♪ He has never lost a battle ♪