- CBN News recently reportedon a recently passed resolution

in California that forces pastors

to embrace pro-LGBT ideology,

but some pastors in the statesay there's more to the story.

They say the measures goal is

to promote compassiontowards the LGBT community.

Joining us now to talk aboutthat is Pastor Dan Carroll

of Water of Life Church.

Welcome Pastor Carroll.

- Thank you Charlene.

- First of all, explainto us exactly what ACR 99,

this resolution is andit's intended purpose.

- Well first, it's a resolution.

It's not a law.

That's really important to say.

Nobody's being forced to do anything.

It's a suggestion.

And so, a year ago, we had AB 2943.

Many of you are familiar with that

because that was a law andit was a very restrictive

and oppressive law.

It was a law that would've forced us to

withdraw books from our bookstores

that were anything in thosebooks that was not pro-gay,

was not pro-homosexual,

and so one of the discussions that we had

at that time was the Bible.

Are you really telling usthat you're going to try

to outlaw the Bible becausethe Bible's not pro-homosexual

in many places and actuallythere's six verses that deal

with homosexuality at lengththat are not pro-homosexual.

So we had those kinds of discussions

and during the time thatwe had those discussions,

we contacted our local assembly people

and we ended up in adiscussion with Evan Low

who was the author of AB 2943

and he was willing to pull the bill

and use a resolution instead of the bill

and that's what ACR 99 is, is a resolution

that replaced AB 2943, a bill.

And so the resolution waswritten several different times,

probably six or sevendifferent times for us

and then Evan actuallyused his own resolution

as the final and it wasn'tsomething that we all embraced

at any level, but that'skind of the backdrop

of what took place there.

- So let me just besure, for those who are,

you know, arguing that thisis going to force pastors

to restrict them from sayingthat homosexuality is a sin,

so that's not what this resolution is?

- Well, no.

Somebody like Roger Gannon,who Roger and I have spoken

at this from Liberty Council,Roger feels that this

opens a door to communitieshousing legislation

in their local cities thatwould be more restrictive

and there's no doubt that this is not

a completely positive event.

I'm not trying to sell it as that,

what I'm trying to sayis that it's much better

than a law that we haveto go to court and fight.

- And you mentioned that youand several other pastors

have been working behind the scenes

with Assemblyman Evan Low,the author of the resolution.

And due to your relationship,you're saying that

the legislation in ACR 99 is a lot easier

or more favorable towardpastors in the state.

Tell us a little bit more about that.

- Well, because of therestrictiveness of AB 2943,

it was so oppressive that we contacted

our local Assemblywoman,her name is Eloise Reyes,

and went over and metwith her in her office

and she, we had a granddiscussion with her

and she was so taken by our time

that she offered me anappointment with Evan Low

if I would fly to Sacremento.

And I, unbeknownst to me, I had no idea

that a lot of pastors weretrying to get in touch with Evan

at that time because I'mreally not one of the pastors

who would typically participatein the political arena.

But in this particular case, it was so,

it was just a very discouragingand oppressive bill

and so I got involved in it at that level.

I ended up flying toSacremento, met with Evan,

and shared my heart with him.

He was very thoughtful, very receptive,

and listened very intently.

he was quite honoringactually and I tried to do

the same thing with him and care for him

as a human being, asa person, love on him.

And he asked me at thatpoint if I would be willing

to work with him on the lawand allow him to come down

to meet with pastors at my church.

So Evan flew to our churchin Fontana, California

and met with probably 30pastors that I selected

and asked to come infor a meeting with Evan

that we could have aninteractive discussion.

That lasted probably twohours and it was really

a profitable discussion to the point that

Evan actually told us that hewas willing to pull the bill,

thought it had beenpassed by the whole Senate

and the Assembly and it was sitting,

waiting for a Governor's signature.

And to his credit, he did do that.

He went back to Sacrementoand pulled the bill

and we were actuallyquite ecstatic about that,

all of us, because we builta relationship that was,

it was built on some trust on both sides,

though we question each otherdeeply, there was a level

of trust that was being shaped and formed.

And that was what ACR 99 was born out of.

- So tell me, what is it about ACR 99

that you are in agreementabout with Evan Low?

- Well the things that we,after months and months

of meeting with the LGBTQCaucus in Sacremento,

having discussions withEvan, sitting with several

other pastors and writing resolutions

that were, from a Christian perspective,

we wrote I think sevendifferent resolutions

that we thought were gonna be passed.

Twice we thought we hada bill that was gonna,

a resolution that was gonna be presented

and right at the last minutethose resolutions got pulled

for numbers of different reasons.

Primarily because they were from

such a Christian perspective.

The thing that we agreedwith the LGBTQ Caucus on

was that we are not for anykind of coercive behavior

on the part of leadersor Counselors or pastors

and as we shared with the LGBTQ Caucus,

we don't know anybody inCalifornia that's Christian

that is actually doingwhat they're suggesting

that we're doing.

So we didn't--

- [Charlene] Is it therapyyou're talking about?

- Well, they call it conversion therapy,

but after sitting at the table with them

for extensive periods of discussions,

it's quite clear to usthat their interpretation

of conversion therapy in the gay community

and our interpretation inthe Christian community

are very, very different.

So what we see, what they see,

how we view conversiontherapy is very different.

So we actually opted notto use the term anymore

because we felt that itwasn't, it just wasn't clear

who was, when they arediscussing conversion therapy

and when we're discussing itis quite different discussion.

We're talking about two different things.

- Tell me, this Doctor Kevin Manno

of Azusa Pacific Universitysays that he expresses

various levels of supportfor this resolution

dealing with conversiontherapy and LGBTQ persons,

you know, and many callhis support for this

really he's saying he's apuppet for the gay community.

What's your response to that?

- Well my response firstoff, and as I shared

with Roger Ganoa when we spoke is that

without Kevin Manno's involvement in this

we would be fighting AB2943 in court right now.

We would be using ourresources to fight a bill

that would have gone throughthe court system for years.

And it was money that wecan use to care for the poor

to do ministry that we would have been

spending on that bill.

Kevin, because of hisrelationship, he also met

with Evan Low at the same time that I did

when Evan flew to Southern California.

He started a relationshipwith Evan as well

and so he and I can both havea relationship with Evan.

And Kevin's support of the bill is really

a support for the positions that say

we do not agree with coercive behavior,

we do not agree withwounding and hurting people,

we agreed with those partsof the, not the bill,

but the resolution, weagreed with those statements.

- But staying true toyour biblical convictions

about what the Bible saysabout human sexuality.

- None of us were agreeingwith the things that were in

the resolution and Iknow when Evan had Kevin

come to Sacremento and speakat the judiciary hearing

that Kevin was quite effusive about that.

I was actually invited to speak as well

and I wasn't in town at that time,

but Kevin's enthusiasm, if you would,

I think overstepped abit and so he's gotten

a lot of flack for that andtaken a lot of abuse for it.

But really the truthis is that Kevin holds

to Biblical perspective and his heart

is to try to build a relationshipwith the gay community

so we can talk.

It's the same perspective that I have.

- And Pastor Carroll, real quickly,

many say that Azusa Pacific University,

a Christian university hascaved to the LGBTQ crowd.

Do you agree with that assessment?

- No, I don't think that they've caved

into the LGBTQ crowd.

I think that the LGBTQ plus community

is wanting to have discussionswith our universities,

our Christian universities in California.

Is there a high levelof concern for pastors

like myself and other people, yes.

We talk about those things, I've spoken to

the people at Azusa Pacific about that.

We speak to the presidentsand the administrators

at the universities aroundus because we're concerned

that there is movementtowards a compromise.

We're concerned about that.

And when we talk to them,we are often reassured

that that is not actually taking place,

but that they have gaystudents on their campus

they're trying to sort outhow to manage that today.

I think that's the case at Azusa Pacifica.

I think they're tryingto sort out what to do

with the gay students that are coming

onto their campus todaybecause it is happening.

- Finally, what do you hope to see happen

from now moving forward?

- Well, what we try to,Charlene, is we try to create

relationship with the gay community.

In our estimation, it'sa bit of a runaway train

in Sacremento.

They were passing bills,they're passing laws.

We have no input at all,we have no discussion,

we have no say.

As Evan Low has said to us publicly,

they are super majority,they don't need us.

The fact that Evan is willing to come

and sit at the table withus is, in our estimation,

much better than just hurling

volatile bombs at each other across this

big, huge chasm that we have.

We have a canyon that separates us

and we talk about that openly

that our world views arevery, very different.

But it's in my estimation, Charlene,

it's much better for us tosit at the table and talk

with the gay communitythan it is just to be angry

with each other andmisunderstand each other.

Jesus always took the timeto interact with people.

So one of the things wetry to do is be honoring,

thoughtful, and kind every time we're with

these folks from the gay community.

And to their credit, they've done

the exact same thing with us.

There's suspicion, there's questions about

the Christians, there's(mumbling) for them.

But we've built a relationship

that's life giving withthem right now, Charlene.

So we like the fact thatthey will call us up,

say would you fly up and sit with us

and talk about this bill we're gonna pass

or this thing that we'reworking on right now.

- All right, Pastor DanCarroll, thank you so much

for your time and for gettingup so early over there

in Australia, God bless you.

- Charlene, bless you.

Thank you for your concerns,

take care.- Take care.