(dramatic cinematic music)

- There's disturbing newsjust out from London.

An independent internationaltribunal concludes

that China is killing prisoners

in order to harvest their organs.

Organ transplant tourismto China is big business

and big dollars are involved.

The tribunal found thatsome of the victims

of the forced organharvesting are detainees

from the Falun Gong movement.

Former Falun Gong and andUyghur Muslim inmates report

they were subjected toongoing medical checkups

and blood testing.

China says it stoppedharvesting the organs

of executed prisonersabout five years ago,

but the China tribunalsuggests it is still happening.

Here to fill us in withmore is Mr. Gary Bauer.

Gary is a member of the US Commission

on International Religious Freedom.

Gary, thanks for joining us.

It's good to see you again.

- Well it's my pleasure to be with you,

but it's sad that we, in this day and age,

we're talking about something so horrible

and so evil as this.

- Yeah, so fill us in on moreof the tribunal's findings

and share your thoughts, please.

- Well, this is a very credible group.

The chairman of it, Sir Geoffrey Nice,

has devoted years of workon human rights issues.

The other members ofthe tribunal were people

that were steeped in Chinesehistory, Chinese culture.

They interviewed dozensand dozens of witnesses,

so this is a very credible report.

And what it shows, as yousummarized, is that China,

in spite of previous denials,has literally been killing

prisoners of conscience in many cases.

Chinese who are in jail

because of the way they'reseeking God or they worship God,

and the Chinese governmentis threatened by that,

and they're killing these prisoners

and are harvesting theirinternal organs for profit.

No doubt the money goes tothe Chinese Communist Party,

or perhaps to thePeople's Liberation Army.

This is just one more example

of what is the egregiousviolations of human rights

and religious liberty in China

that the United States Commission

on International ReligiousFreedom has been reporting on

and indicting China aboutall the way back to 2007,

and again, this year,

we emphasized these Chineseabuses in our own report.

- Gary, the tribunalmentioned the Falun Gong.

Did it find evidence ofother minority groups,

say, Christians orTibetans or other groups?

Uyghur Muslim?

- You know, the evidence seems to point

mostly to the Falun Gong, but, look,

China's an equal-opportunityhuman rights abuser,

so they use different tactics,

different things outsidethe bounds of civilization

depending on what religious group

or other type of groupthat we're talking about,

so, as we know, I think it's becoming

more and more well known,

Chinese Uyghurs, Chinese Muslims,

are being held, in manycases, in detention camps.

Christian churches are being shut down.

Facial recognition technology

has been put into some churches,

so that the government can keep track

of who it is that attends these churches,

and now we're getting this report

about what appears to be a singling out,

mostly of the Falun Gong.

All of these practicesare beyond the pale.

They deserve international condemnation,

and it ought to raiseserious questions in my view,

my personal view, of anybusiness that is doing business,

making a profit in China,

whether they're European businesses,

businesses here in the United States.

They ought to seriously ask themselves

if they want to be doingbusiness in a country

that is engaged in this typeof unbelievable violations

of basic human rights and human dignity.

- And, of course, as it always does,

the Chinese government maintains

it's abiding by international standards,

this is just political propagandabeing used against them,

but I understand this tribunal

looked into this for over a year.

It says there's plenty of evidence.

Where did all the evidencecome from, Gary, do you know?

- Well, they talked to people

that have made it out of China,

or people that have relatives in China

that have been able toshare information with them.

In the internet age, inspite of the worst efforts

of the Chinese government

to stop information fromcirculating, some still gets out,

so all of those things, Ithink, led to these conclusions.

We know from the past thatthere were projections.

We're not talking here

about a couple of dozen incidents a year.

Previous studies showedthat there may have been

as many as 60,000 to90,000 of these killings

taking place each year inwhich organs were harvested.

So this is a level of violations

of human dignity and religious liberty

that I think is very hard forAmericans to even comprehend.

- And this is ongoing becauseit's big business, isn't it?

So, what do we do to stop it?

- Well, the United States Commission

on International Religious Freedom

will be urging Congressand the administration,

the Trump administration,to act on these issues,

to raise them in any kind

of bilateral negotiationswith Communist China,

and we want to keep emphasizingit is still Communist China.

I think over all these years

of normalization of relations with China

we've tended to forget whatkind of a regime it is,

and it ends up that allthis trade with China

ended up changing us, I'm afraid,

more than it changed China,

but we do think there are things

that our government can do, our Congress,

the State Department, the administration,

and we will work with allbranches of government

to help give them guidance on this

in the hope that theseissues will be raised

with greater frequencyand with more passion.

- And I know you and other commissioners

from the US Commission onInternational Religious Freedom

always say there has to be linkage

to religious freedom and trade with China.

So Gary Bauer, the US Commission

on International Religious Freedom,

thank you so much for joining us.

Thank you for your insights.

- Great to be with you this morning.