- For more our ABC NewsPolitical Director, Rick Klein,

and CBN News Chief PoliticalAnalyst, David Brody.

Rick to you first.

We see the president wantingto shut down the border.

Mexico of course, is ourthird largest trading partner

and then there's all of these migrants

coming to the border creatinga lot of problems down there.

Is this about solvingthe immigration crisis

or is it really more, in your opinion,

about 2020 and fulfillingcampaign promises.

- We'll see if he follows through.

He's threatened this before.

I talked to the SenateHomeland Security Chairman,

who's an ally of thepresident, Senator Ron Johnson,

he says it's not actually practical

to close the border entirely.

So some of this is rhetoric,maybe it's about trying

to get the Mexican governmentto a negotiating table,

I think a lot of it is colored by the fact

that this president made this commitment

regarding the border, he hasobviously been very fixated

on getting his border wall,

and I think part of itis associated with that.

- And if I can just add in,

some of his critics will sayhe's crazy enough to do it.

And there's that Trump wildcard.

That's exactly where he wants his enemies,

and quite frankly everybody to be.

This idea that he may just do it

and that gives him leverage to a degree.

Also, he looks at everythingin terms of money.

And I understand there'sa bigger picture here

in terms of you dry upthe money in Honduras

and Guatemala, and El Salvador,

you risk these communitiesbecoming less stable,

but he just says, whatare we getting for it?

Right?

I mean same thing with G20.

Some thing with Iran deal.

I mean every, trade, China,everything is about fairness.

We're not gonna take it,America first, all that.

But money seems to be the commondenominator a lot of times.

- Jenna just hinted towards 2020.

Joe Biden is in some political hot water

over his affectionate,

what some might call inappropriate style.

You've already seen some Democrats begin

to circle the wagons around him.

Do you think that thiswill, for both of you,

keep him from running?

- No, I don't think so.

Though I'd be curious toget your opinion Rick.

I guess we'll get to that in a moment.

No, I don't think so.

I feel like he's stuck in 1979.

I just feel like this type of conduct,

look, I'm not sayinganything about the conduct,

I'm not condoning it orsaying anything about it,

but in 1979 this conductcompared to today,

there was a different barometer.

There's a different bar today.

And that poses a problemfor the Democrats.

I mean, you're gonnacome out and be part of,

you're gonna lead the me too movement,

the #metoo movement,and then you have this.

Where does that make JoeBiden fit into all this.

I mean I think that's areal problem for Democrats

and I will just say about evangelicals,

evangelicals sorry, youcan't say anything right now.

If you're gonna support Donald Trump,

there's nothing youcan say about Joe Biden

when it comes to character issues.

- I think for him the rules have changed.

I think David's right.

Even since he left politicsjust three years ago

they've changed and certainly

since he first enteredthe Senate in what 1974.

Things are just different now.

And all of it gets looked at differently.

And I think if he is going to run,

he has to appreciate thatall of this is on the table.

And his handling of theAnita Hill hearings.

We've been talking about his handling

of the busing issue in the middle 1970s,

his flip flops or his changingpositions on abortion rights.

All of these things are fairgame for Democrats to look at

and the party is sodifferent than the party

that he came up in.

And part of that's his appeal.

There are a lot of Democratsthat would like to go back

to the good old Joe Biden days

where they felt like theywere a working class appeal

that Democrats like Biden could appeal to.

But the party is so different right now

and this is going to be a rough moment

for his pre-campaign.

His people around him have saidthat they've always expected

that things could come out

and that wouldn't affecthis decision making.

But, man, it's hard toimagine that you don't look

at all of the events of the last few days

and wonder if that gives him pause.

- David, I wanna circle back to you

because you had mentionedwhat evangelicals,

their critique of this.

But, White House CounselorKellyanne Conway criticized

Biden calling him creepy Uncle Joe.

Given her boss' checkered past,

does that kinda createan awkward situation?

- Yeah it does, for sure.

And I just think thisis one a those things

the White House has to leave alone.

But yeah, good luck, Donald Trump

(man laughing)leaving this alone,

he's not gonna do that.

Matter of fact, remember theWhite House official position,

at least Trump's official position,

is I didn't do anything wrong.

I mean he hasn't admitted to anything.

So, look, if he can figure out, he, Trump,

if he can figure out a way to win

at whatever game he's playing

and a lot of it's three dimensional chess

and some would call it Parcheesi,

but whatever he's playing,he'll figure out a way to do it.

- Yeah, Rick on healthcare in 2020,

President Trump hewants do with Obamacare,

a lot of Republicans, peoplein his own party are saying,

this is not been a winningissue for us in the past.

Why are revisiting it now?

What are your thoughts on that?

- Yeah, the most telling response to me

was Mitch McConnell, theSenate Majority Leader,

he says I look forward toseeing what Donald Trump

and Speaker Pelosi come up with.

Which means, it's not my problem guys.

I am not dealing with that.

I've dealt with it already.

I think as we learn moreabout what drove this push

in the lawsuit that wasfiled just last week,

you recognize the presidentcontinues to think

this is a winning issue

and there's very few aroundhim that think the same.

The Democrats essentiallywon control of the House

on this issue.

They were obsessed with pushingthis as far as they could.

Republicans had to playdefense throughout the campaign

and the bottom line is,

if Obamacare was ruled unconstitutional,

thrown out tomorrow, thereis no plan to replace it.

And millions of Americanswould probably suffer

pretty dire consequences.

- David, back to the Mueller report.

We wanted to talk about that.

It fell flat for a lot of these Democrats.

But they are not letting it die.

What do you think their end game is here?

What are they trying to get at?

- Well, I've been on record if you will

from an analysis standpoint,

about when are you gonnastop digging the grave?

I mean, look, the top lineof Mueller is no collusion.

So you can go to the underlying evidence

and these are the words we hear,

underlying evidence, underlying evidence,

underlying evidence, and I get it.

They're trying to createtheir own special counsel,

they're trying to find any nook and cranny

they can possibly find,to create that narrative,

and keep the cloud going.

But, at some point, you've gotta just say,

look, it is what it is.

And this whole idea that Jerrold Nadler

is going to now subpoena,

or he wants the un-redacted report.

Now you're talking aboutnational security issues.

And I understand it'sgonna be a legal fight

and it's never gonna be un-redacted,

but the fact that theywould even want that

I think is a big problem.

- This is a bit of apolitical gamble for Democrats

is it not?

- Yeah, I think they dugpretty far in on this.

But, David's right, thetop line is not collusion.

It's hard to imagine someoneelse is gonna find collusion

if Mueller didn't.

The question of obstruction is a legal one

that I think will comeout through the final say.

I think we're gonna knowmost of what Mueller found

and most of the report is gonna come out

in some form or fashion.

And then Democrats have to decide whether

that's enough or not.

There's gonna be people pushinghim in either direction.

- Well gentlemen, we're gonnahave to leave it right there.

ABC's Rick Klein and CBN's David Brody.

Thanks so much.- Thank you.

- Thank you both.