- [Announcer] Bestselling author,

Gary Chapman, has helped thousands

of couples formlong-lasting relationships.

For many years as a counselor,

he's found that manycouples are struggling

to make a miserable marriage work.

In his book Loving Your Spouse

When You Feel Like Walking Away,

Gary offers positive stepsthat can change the emotional

climate in a marriage and offers for hope

for even the most desperate situations.

- Here with me now is Dr. Gary Chapman.

It's great to have you with us today.

- Thank you, Terry, good to be with you.

- You and your wife havebeen married 50 plus years

but you say that in the beginning

it wasn't all (laughs)chocolates and roses.

- It was not.

- How did you move fromwhere you married each other

with the and they livedhappily ever after mindset

to reality in a positive way?

- The short answer is God.

I was pretty desperate.

We had dated two yearsbefore we got married.

- [Terry] So it wasn't likeyou didn't know each other.

- And we knew each other.

But you the in love experience?

The average lifespan is two years.

(Terry laughs)

- [Terry] Oops.

- [Gary] We came off of a high--

- [Terry] Bad timing, Gary.

- Right after the honeymoon.

And our differencesemerged and we didn't know

how to solve them becausewhen you're in love

you don't think you'll have any problems.

And really, I remember the night

when we got into an argument, one of many,

pouring down rain outsideand my wife walked

out the front door into the rain.

And my first thought was stayhere and fight like a man.

(Terry laughs)

My second thought was oh God, this is bad.

When a woman walks outin the rain, it's bad.

- Yes, it is, Gary.

(laughing)

So where did God move in to that need?

- I was in seminary,studying to be a pastor

and the closer I got to graduation,

the more miserable I was.

Because I knew I could not get up

and preach hope to peopleand be this miserable.

And I said to God I don'tknow what else to do.

I've done everything I know to do,

it's not getting any better.

Soon as I said that, therecame to my mind a visual image

of Jesus on His knees washingthe feet of His disciples

and I heard God say that's the problem.

You don't have the attitude of Christ.

And I remember what Jesussaid when He stood up,

He said to His disciples, I'm your leader

and in My kingdom thisis the way you lead.

And I knew it was not my attitude.

My attitude was look, I knowhow to have a good marriage

if you'll listen to me we'll have one.

And she wouldn't listen to me.

And I blamed her.

But that day I had a change of heart

and I said God, forgive me,

with all of my study in Greek and Hebrew,

I've missed the whole point.

- We can do that, can't we?

In all of our reading of Scripture,

we can miss the whole point.

You share four myths that people believe

that there's no hopefor their relationship.

Talk about those myths.

You address them in the book.

- Well, one of them is thatour environment determines

our wellbeing and in a marriage that means

that my spouse determines my wellbeing.

That if they are an alcoholic,

then I'm gonna have a miserable life.

That if they're depressed,

then I'm gonna have a miserable life.

The fact is all of us have an environment.

Sometimes it's positive,sometimes it's negative.

And we are influenced by that.

But we're not controlled by that.

Getting over that myththat I'm gonna be miserable

because of my spouse and theirbehavior is one of the myths.

Another myth is that people cannot change.

If he's been this way for 20 years,

he's gonna be this way the next 20 years.

The fact is people do change.

In fact, we all change.

We either get better or we get worse.

And you read the biographiesof some of the great

Christians of the past year,

they had horrible livesin their early years

and there was a radical change.

God's in the business of changing people.

So we gotta give up the myththat people don't change.

Another myth is that somesituations are hopeless

and mine is one of them.

And I understand that feeling

'cause I remember how hopeless I was.

But that's a myth.

No situation's hopeless for two reasons.

Number one, we're humans andwe have the capacity to change.

And God is God and He has the capacity

to touch lives and change lives.

So we have to get rid of the myths

before we can startlooking in a positive way

to our relationships.

- Talk about some of the realities

because it's not you leave us just looking

at some of the wrongthinking that we have.

But you actually talk about some

of the things that can be done

to bring a marriage toa more positive place.

- One of them is acknowledgingthat I chose my attitude.

We don't choose our emotions.

Emotions grab you, you don't ask for them.

But we choose our attitudes,our way of thinking.

And if we recognize that,

that I don't have to be controlled

by my emotions, I'm choosing my attitude.

Because attitude then affects behavior.

So if I think in termsof what can I do positive

in this relationship then something comes

to my mind that I can do positive.

And the fact is every day,even in good marriages,

we influence each othernegatively or positively.

I sometimes give the illustration of

if you come home in the afternoon,you go greet your spouse,

you talk about yourday, you hug each other,

you've just influencedthem in a positive way.

But let's say you walkin in the afternoon,

you don't go find your spouse,

you go get something todrink, you start watching TV,

you've influenced them in a negative way.

You've communicatedyou're not the number one

person in my life.

Little ways and big wayswe influence each other.

Our thinking, our attitudeguides us to our behavior

and if I'm thinking about howcan I be a positive influence

in this relationship thenI'll find positive behaviors.

I did meet a lady who said to me one time,

she said Dr. Chapman,I know it would be good

if I could give my husband positive words

but to be honest with you, I can't think

of anything good to say about the man.

(laughing)

- Oh, ouch.

- And I said well, doeshe ever take a shower?

(Terry laughs)

- You're bound to get that.

- She said yes and I said well, how often?

She said well, every day.

I said if I were you, I'd start there.

(Terry laughs)

I said there's some menwho don't take showers.

Thank you, honey, for taking a shower.

(laughing)

- I'd like to see the response to that.

- I think another realityis that we have to

acknowledge we cannot change our spouse.

Now everybody agrees to thatbut we forget the other part.

I can influence my spouse.

I can't change but I can influence.

And we've gotta get over the hump there.

Because we give up if wesay I can't change him,

he's that way, she's that way,they'll always be that way.

And it's true you can't change them

but you can influence them.

So you start looking forways to influence them.

- In fact, that's our job, right?

- Absolutely, we're hereto have a positive impact

on each other.

- He's been married 57 years,

he knows what he's talking about.

Thank you so much.

I want you to know we havejust skimmed the surface

of all the wonderful advicein Loving Your Spouse

When You Feel Like Walking Away.

And there's also another book called

Keeping Love Alive As Memories Fade.

If you're experiencing a loved one going

through Alzheimer's, I think you'll find

that book really valuable as well.

Both are availablewherever books are sold.

Thank you, Gary, for being here.

Good to have you with us.- Thank you, Terry.