- [Host] The opioid crisisis so out of control,
lately the number of peopledying of overdoses each year,
equals the populationof a medium-sized city.
The synthetic opioid, fentanyl,
also heroine and prescription painkillers
steal so many lives,
the average life expectancy is decreasing
for some segments of our population.
How did we get here?
Where did it begin?
Author Barry Meier traces the origin
of America's opioid nightmareback to one drug, OxyContin.
15 years ago, he soundedthe alarm with his book,
Pain Killer, describing howthe pharmaceutical industry
underplayed the addictive natureof this powerful narcotic,
setting off a deadly chain reaction.
- Well, it's a fabulous book.
It's called Pain Killer:An Empire of Deceit
and How it Began.
Barry Meier, he's re-publishing this book
and the New York Timesinvestigative reporter,
Barry Meier, is joining us now.
Barry, it's so good to see ya.
This is a great book.
Thank you so much for writing it.
- Thank you, Dr. Robinson.
- Look, tell us about this guy, Sackler,
what did he do about this pain thing?
- Well you know, we're in the midst
of what is probably the greatest public
health crisis of our time.
And to really solve it, weneed to go back and understand
how it started.
It started with this drug, OxyContin.
The Sacklers promoted this drug
through their company, Purdue Pharma,
as sort of a miracle cure.
Ya know, doctors want to treat pain.
They want to help theirpatient, but they were misled,
and told that this drug, becauseof its special formulation,
could alleviate painwithout causing addiction.
- Well, this OxyContin, it'sa heroine opium derivative.
We used to take morphine.
Morphine was sort of good for pain.
Why is pain so importantand were pompasizing pain
as a health crisis that had to be solved?
Well pain is our greatest problem.
You know, it's mankind's greatest threat.
People have suffered from pain forever
and there was a real desireon the port of doctors
to treat pain more aggressively,
particularly end of life pain.
You know, there was atime in the United States
when people with cancer would suffer.
They'd suffer unnecessarily.
So, it was a good thing totreat those kinds of people
aggressively, to treat their pain,
but the idea was promotedthat all kinds of pain,
be it back pain, arthritis, dental pain,
pain from sports injuries could be treated
with these potentially addicting drugs
and to promegate that idea,
Purdue Pharma bombarded doctors
with essentially fake science.
- You said that thisSackler really went on a
public relations campaignthat did the infomercials
and really was, in termsof public relations,
was groundbreaking, wasn't it?
- It was remarkable.
OxyContin was promoted more aggressively
than any other prescription narcotic
in the history of the drug industry.
They would have conventions, junkettes,
where doctors would be brought together,
and promoted the idea of these drugs.
They'd be put on the company's payroll.
They'd go out and promotethe drug to other doctors.
And this drug, which was, ya know,
in some cases, a very effective drug,
in other cases, a very dangerous drug,
was embraced by doctors,
and it became a billion dollar product.
- How does all this stuff work?
There's a company, Ithink, called McKesson,
and of course this pharmayou've been talking about
and others, and there'ssupposed to be like a
pathway down in Floridawhere they're passing out
millions and millions andbillions of these pills.
Tell us about how this thing works,
this pipeline of thesesupposedly illegal drugs.
How are they getting intothese fake pharmacies?
- Well, what's remarkableto me, Dr. Robinson,
is that our government,
which claims to be a government of laws,
hasn't gone more aggressively after
these types of companies.
So essentially, you have drug producers
on one hand and companies like McKesson,
which are so called drugdistributors, on the other hand.
So they're the middle man, if you will,
between the drug companyand the drugstore.
And may of these distributors know that
certain drugstores or certain doctors
are outlets for drugs gettinginto the black market.
But because the trade is so profitable,
they turn a blind eye to it.
And unfortunately, ourgovernment has turned
a blind eye to them and it's my belief
that if some of these corporate executives
who have profited widelyfrom this illicit trade,
if you will, did some jail time,
we'd see far less problems than we do.
- You pointed out that Sackleris a great philanthropist,
that he's given all kinds of money,
that he is a billionairewith one of the ones
in the Forbes list ofimportant executives.
Out of this OxyContin, one drug?
- It's remarkable.
Approximately $31 billionworth of OxyContin
had been sold since the drug'sfirst went on the market
in the mid 1990's.
The Sackler family are people, ya know,
I'm sure they're lovely people.
If you sat down and had a meal with them
or you chatted with them,
they'd be extremely reasonable.
They give money to the arts.
They give money to science.
But, ya know, they also havenot been held to account.
We don't know exactly what they knew
and hopefully, ourgovernment, at some point,
will do the type of investigation to bring
the truth of this situation to the public.
- How do you tie these prescription drugs,
this OxyContin along with street heroine
and cocaine and the otherdrugs that are illegal?
- Well Dr Robinson, I think wehave a hydra-headed problem.
We have the legal drugproblem on one side,
which are the drugs like OxyContin,
and we have the illicit drug problem,
drugs like cocaine andheroine on the other side
and in my mind, I tryto keep them separate
because I think these problems,while we tend to see them
as the opioid problem,have two very different,
distinct solutions to them.
On the legal drug side, it has to do with
the types of drugs or treatmentsthat doctors prescribe.
We need to prescribefewer opioids and find out
other ways to treat pain.
The illicit drug problem reallyis a law enforcement issue
and that has to do withshutting down gangs,
shutting down the easethrough which these drugs
enter our country.
- You've given out, we'rerunning outta time unfortunately,
but you've given somereally horrible examples,
examples of horriblethings that have happened,
how people's lives have been destroyed,
how whole families have been ruined
because of this opioids.
Could you give us a couple of examples?
- Well ya know, it's oftena generational problem.
It's often a problem where
a parent gets addicted to an opioid
and the opioid's out therefor their child to get
access to, but alongwith the terrible things
that we face,
I think we need tofocus on the good things
that we can do, the things that we can do
that require our compassionand demand our compassion,
and that involves theappropriate treatment
of people who are addicted to these drugs.
They shouldn't be spurn.
We need to treat themwith the same compassion
that we treat people with otherkinds of medical problems,
and we also need to thinkabout ways that pain
can be treated differently,can be treated not with pills.
We tend to throw pills ateverything, as a society,
in terms of medical treatment.
So both in terms of medical treatment
and addiction treatment,we need to kinda focus on
thoughtful, compassionate waysto deal with these problems.
I know that people ofgoodwill and people of faith
are prepared to meet those challenges.
- CBS did an interesting story about this,
that the Congress hadactually passed a law
that limited the ability of the EPA to
actually shut these pill factories down.
Is that true?
That there are laws thatprevent the appropriate
law enforcement?
- Ya know, the power of the drug industry
and the drug industry's lobbyists
to prevent effective law enforcement
and even effective medical treatment
from taking place is appalling.
Ya know, part of thereason that I reissued
Pain Killer was because Idiscovered very recently
that the justice departmentactually had wanted to
indict the type executivesof Purdue Pharma
on criminal charges a decade ago.
This was back in 2007.
The prosecutors that had beeninvestigating this company
had found enough evidence of wrongdoing
to just, in their minds, justifyindicting these executives.
And the top executivesof the justice department
who were being lobbied bylawyers for Purdue said,
"No, no, no, wait a minute.
"Let's not go there."
And that was a tragedy becausehad that law enforcement
gone forward, we wouldnot be in the predicament
we are today.
- Barry Meier, thank you for this.
I wish we had more time with you.
This is a dynamite book,ladies and gentlemen.
It's a small book andit's called Pain Killer.
Barry Meier's book that's republished.
He sounded the alarm years ago
and what's happeningnow, states like Ohio,
in a crisis, they're in a crisis,
and the damage to people'slives is beyond measure.
We need to have vigorous law enforcement
as he said, these guyshave got to go to jail.
Something's gotta happento stop this epidemic.
Barry, thank you somuch for being with us.
- Thank you, Dr. Robinson.
